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So my reply “may” describe a significance of Eve, but only on a basic level, is that it?
No am “important” level, the more important level “deeper significance” that you want to position yourself here as holding, right?
What is this deeper significance of Adam’s rib?
Your review ends with "Cain came out of Eve as the rest of mankind".
I agree that Cain and everyone else besides Eve herself "came out of Eve".
That is related to all of mankind. As such it is more related to chapter one of Genesis, maybe at 1:26,27 a synopsis of the entire race of created humans.
It also relates to Eve being the mother of all living (3:20).
What you wrote culminates in a not bad synapsis of the origin of all people.
So "wild" upon closer examination, may have been an unfair description of the chain of statements.
But at the end of the Bible that significant part of all humans who have lived is those who compose the Bride of Christ and the Wife of Christ. Universalism may teach you that that counterpart of Christ is everyone who was ever born of Eve.
But when John is shown the vision of the Bride he is called away from the counter vision of the judged for their inseparable and non-repentant union with the Prostitute who is opposite of the Wife.
I'll demonstrate that in the next post.
@sonship saidAs I said, given the prickliness of your knee-jerk reply to first post in this thread, I think your feathers were and are ruffled because your need is to make 30 or 40 guru-like, convoluted posts drawing out an over-complex exegesis which in presenting it here, feeds your pride.
@divegeester
So "wild" upon closer examination, may have been an unfair description of the chain of statements.
I’m sorry if this analysis upsets you, but this is my honest perspective of your posting motivations. What I tried to do is come from a simplistic approach.
You might fair better in this forum (in terms of message acceptance and overall credibility) if you remember that Jesus spoke in parables not peer reviewed papers.
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But when John is shown the vision of the Bride he is called away from the counter vision of the judged for their inseparable and non-repentant union with the Prostitute who is opposite of the Wife.
"But the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and fornicators and sorcerers and idolaters and all the false, their part will be in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death. " (Rev. 21:8)
Then one of the judging angels calls John away from that terrible spectacle to look at something better - what God undeterred and undefeated accomplishes - His counterpart - the bride and wife of the Lamb (Jesus).
"And one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls full of the seven last plagues came and spoke with me, saying, Come here; I will show you the bride, the wife of the Lamb.
And he carried me away in spirit onto a great and high mountain and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God." (vs.9,10)
It is this bride and wife of the Redeemer, the God-man Jesus Christ, that Paul speaks of in Ephesians when he says a corporate entity will be presented to Christ "not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing" beyond eternal judgment.
" . . . Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her that He might sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing of the water in the word, that He might present the church to Himself glorious, not having spot or wrinkle or any such things, but that she would be holy and without blemish." (vs.25b-27)
A few verses latter Paul draws the strong connection between this holy, spotless, glorious bride to the story of Eve coming out of Adam.
"For no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, even as Christ also the church. Because we are members of His Body.
For this cause a man shall leave his father and mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall be one flesh. This mystery is great, but I speak with regard to CHRIST and THE CHURCH."
This particular greatly significant mystery the Apostle speaks of is not Christ and the entire mankind or Christ and all living. But out of all living the called out EKKLESIA - the church is called His holy bride.
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Something more is significant. This group in chapter five called Christ's Body, Christ's wife are those chosen in Him [Christ] before the foundation of the world.. Before God created the universe, ie. laid "the foundation of the world" their marked out destiny was to be "holy and without blemish before Him in love."
The bride and wife then the concludes the Bible consists of the sons of God individually who are built into a city collectively.
"Even as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and without blemish before Him in love, predestinating us unto sonship through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the good pleasure of His will." (vs.4,5)
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As I said, given the prickliness of your knee-jerk reply to first post in this thread, I think your feathers were and are ruffled because your need is to make 30 or 40 guru-like, convoluted posts drawing out an over-complex exegesis which in presenting it here, feeds your pride.
It is a bit amusing the attention and energy you give to talking about personal emotional reactions. Moving down to look for what is more pertinent -
I’m sorry if this analysis upsets you,
Relax.
but this is my honest perspective of your posting motivations. What I tried to do is come from a simplistic approach.
Your approach is not wrong in that you draw attention to the biblical truth that ALL of mankind came from Eve. We are told she was the mother of all living.
But Ephesians five about Paul referring to Genesis 2:24,25 has its focus on Eve as the WIFE rather than Eve as the MOTHER.
And picking up on that in Revelation, clearly the bride and wife of the Redeemer, the second man, Christ, is a corporate group of people coming out of God, coming out of heaven as His eternal counterpart, not all of mankind.
Notice Eve came out of Adam. And New Jerusalem comes out of God and out of heaven.
" . . . New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God ... "(See Rev. 3:12)
" . . . and showed me the holy city, Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, having the glory of God . . . " (See Rev. 21:10b,11a)
In Ephesians her source is out of Christ.
In Revelation her source is out of God, out of heaven.
This is a bit more involved then just created man of the dust coming all from Eve.
You might fair better in this forum (in terms of message acceptance and overall credibility) if you remember that Jesus spoke in parables not peer reviewed papers.
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@divegeester
Note that this New Jerusalem is a bride to Christ AND a "city" coming from God. And the city - bride is also a TEMPLE in which God lives.
I say the city contains God because the city is also a TEMPLE. And the temple was throughout the Bible was to be the dwelling place of God.
"He who overcomes, him I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall by no means go out anymore, and I will write upon him the name of My God and the name of the CITY of My God, New Jerusalem, which descends out of heaven from My God, and My new name." (Rev. 3:12)
I'd make some points here:
1.) To be made a pillar is symbolic. It would be a LIVING pillar.
The temple is a living temple.
2.) To go no more out would imply to not remain in this living temple is undesirable.
3.) By no means go out means nothing ever can remove him anymore.
This is really good.
4.) Writing upon this pillar the name of Christ's God must show total ownership in every way by His God.
5.) Writing upon this pillar "New Jerusalem" the name of the city of His God also must indicate total ownership by the city and the temple of God.
6.) Writing upon this pillar Christ's new name is too profound for me to know fully. But it must have something to do with Christ being expressed in a new way. That probably means the Son of God is expressed in a collective way as a city where the constituents of her are like Christ.
These points all agree, in my mind, to the church coming OUT of Christ and being brought back TO Christ to match Him. This is admittedly more than just about created man all coming from Eve the mother of all living.
@sonship saidThen why did you react to my initial post by calling it “wild” and claim that I was “kicking sand in the air”?
@divegeester
Your approach is not wrong in that you draw attention to the biblical truth that ALL of mankind came from Eve.
It all sounded a bit prickly and ruffled-feathery.
@sonship saidYes as I’ve already said, twice at least, we are probably all aware of the significance and citation of the bride of Christ in Revelation and elsewhere.
@divegeester
Note that this New Jerusalemis a bride to Christ AND a city"coming from God. And the city - bride is also a TEMPLE in which God lives.
@sonship saidIs me finding you prickly and prideful amusing? Okay.
@divegeester
It is a bit amusing the attention and energy you give to talking about personal emotional reactions.
I think your behaviour in threads like these is more interesting than wading though your spammy posts of prideful waffly obviousness.
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@divegeester
I think if you really are interested in the revelation about Adam and his wife and Christ and His church, all that stuff about prickly and whatever, will be secondary.
Of course you could dismiss as "waffle" everything you don't like to hear.
Funny thing though, it doesn't seem to make it leave the Bible.
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Cain came out of Eve, as did the rest of mankind
And out of every tribe and people and tongue and nation came an unenumerable multitude with God for eternity in His temple.
" . . . I saw . . . a great multitude which no one could number, out of every nation and all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne of God and before the Lamb . . they cry with a loud voice, saying,
Salvation to our God who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb ..." (See Rev. 7:9,10) .
Out of all mankind who descended from Eve this great multitude comes. Salvation has brought them out.
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Adam came out of the ground of creation
Eve came out of Adam
Cain came out of Eve, as did the rest of mankind
Now there is the old creation and the new creation.
There is the first man Adam and the second man, the last Adam - Christ.
Be careful of the "prickly" thorns now. Look at the ROSE flower.
The new creation consists of those of the old creation who have been put INTO Christ.
"So then if anyone is in Christ, there is a new creation. The old things have passed away, behold, they have become new." (2 Cor. 5:16)
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This is a process going on throughout sanctification in Christ.
Christ is the Head of this new creation. He is called "the beginning of the creation of God" in Rev. 3:14.
He is also called "the beginning" as the Head of the church.
"And He is the Head of the Body, the church; He is the beginning, the Firstborn from the dead, that He might have the first place in all things." (Col. 1:18)
This is glorious. Then Paul waffles on and says in Christ, in the next verse, "all the fulness was pleased to dwell".
Lord Jesus open our eyes.
"For in Him all the fullness was pleased to dwell and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross -
through Him . . ." (v.21)
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You should double check the New Testament in case my bold font is used to trick you. (Noah 3:8)
Now listen to this. Christ became the BEGINNING and the HEAD of a new humanity by becoming a eternal divine life imparting Spirit.
Remember, there is the FIRST man Adam and the SECOND man Christ (or the last Adam).
The last Adam became a life giving Spirit. (1 Cor. 15:45). As a divine life imparting Person - the Spirit - the life giving Spirit, Christ puts Himself and the entire triune God INTO the saved people.
"[T]he last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)
This was after He rose from the dead having accomplished eternal redemption for all those whom God will put into Christ, to be the new creation.
@sonship saidYes that’s right, all of your waffly post are in the Bible!
@divegeester
Of course you could dismiss as "waffle" everything you don't like to hear.
Funny thing though, it doesn't seem to make it leave the Bible.
[eyerole]