Why are you a Christian if you don't believe the Bible?

Originally posted by @rajk999
The New testament gospel starts with the commandments of Christ and how critical it is to do it to enter the kingdom of God.

It continues with how You must follow the commandments otherwise there is no inheritance in the kingdom of God.

The New testament ends with the clear statement that only those who follow Christ and do his commandments will enter the new Jerusalem.

Outside will be preachers like you who lie and deceive.

The rich young ruler had supposedly followed all the commandments. Was that enough to save him?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
The rich young ruler had supposedly followed all the commandments. Was that enough to save him?

I dont not use the expression 'enough to save him' neither do I use the expression 'go to heaven'. These are church phrases steeped in false doctrines and is very confusing.

You are not understanding the matter in Matt 19. The answer is YES the rich young ruler will enter the Kingdom of God if Jesus indeed judged him to have followed the commandments like he said he did, and if he did not place his riches about living righteously. Is there some part of the Bible where Jesus indicated that he would not enter the Kingdom of God? If so please quote it.

Jesus advised the man about aiming at perfection. Perfection is a state that Jesus would like all the elect to aim for

The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet? Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me. (Matthew 19:20-21 KJV)

Stupid questions will be ignored. Sensible questions I will answer.

Originally posted by @rajk999
I dont not use the expression 'enough to save him' neither do I use the expression 'go to heaven'. These are church phrases steeped in false doctrines and is very confusing.

You are not understanding the matter in Matt 19. The answer is YES the rich young ruler will enter the Kingdom of God if Jesus indeed judged him to have followed the commandments lik ...[text shortened]... Matthew 19:20-21 KJV)[/i]

Stupid questions will be ignored. Sensible questions I will answer.

The point of the teaching of the rich young ruler who went away sorrowful was that with man it is impossible. But with God all things are possible.

It is a lesson on the power of the grace of God.

Originally posted by @divegeester
Perhaps you are not, I hope not as your honesty on page one was welcomed by me.

I’m on a flight and can’t get to read your other post until sometime tomorrow. Sorry.

It’s 23:30 where I am now and it’s a few hours flight then sleep.

I will get back to it though I promise

Perhaps you are not, I hope not as your honesty on page one was welcomed by me.

If you are implying that I JUST STARTED being honest with you, I disagree. I think you could have welcomed my honesty towards you a long time ago.

If you mean - " FINALLY!, some welcomed honesty" I don't think that is the case here. Actually I haven't written anything in this thread NOT expressed years previously.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.

Correct.

Very legit question.

The rancor that it has received only serves to validate it.

Originally posted by @sonship
The point of the teaching of the rich young ruler who went away sorrowful was that with man it is impossible. But with God all things are possible.

It is a lesson on the power of the grace of God.

There are several lessons. There is no mention of the power of the grace of God. You made that up. With God all things are possible and God will welcome all who live righteously and do the commandments of Christ

The lessons are:
1. Perfection can be achieved [contrary to Christian doctrine] by continuing with good works and righteousness. It culminates in the divesting of ones worldly wealth and giving it to the poor. Christians preach the nonsense doctrine that it is impossible and man is totally depraved. Jesus never said that.

2. Riches and worldly possessions are a great hindrance to those who want eternal life.

3. With God all things are possible and it is those who follow Christ and do the commandments will get eternal life in the Kingdom of God

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ... Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. (Matthew 19:26-29 KJV)

Those who follow Christ will inherit eternal life in the regeneration when Jesus returns

Originally posted by @rajk999

There are several lessons. There is no mention of the power of the grace of God. You made that up. With God all things are possible and God will welcome all who live righteously and do the commandments of Christ

Of course more than one lesson may be derived from the verse.

The lessons are:
1. Perfection can be achieved [contrary to Christian doctrine] by continuing with good works and righteousness.

Man needs God's grace. Man needs Christ to redeemed him and to indwell him.

Because Christ had not yet gone to the cross and resurrected, He could only look upon the bewildered disciples. He knew that He was going to accomplish eternal redemption.

They were perplexed and asked -

" ... Who then can be saved?" (v.25)

Notice, they did not say "What RICH man can be saved?" They said "WHO?" period (rich OR poor) can be saved.

"And when the disciples heard this they were greatly astonished and said,

Who then can be saved?" (v.25)

In other words - "None of us will ever make it to be saved."

The intend look of Jesus upon them suggests that HE knew something that they did not yet know.

"And looking upon them, Jesus said to them, With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (v.26)

So I stand by verse 26 being an important point of the discussion between Jesus and His disciples. What is an impossibility with men (either rich or poor) is made possible by God's salvation - BOTH His redemption through death AND His indwelling through becoming the One entering into their hearts.

Paul nicely combines both aspects of full salvation in this summary:

"For if we, being enemies, were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more we sill be saved in His life, having been reconciled." (Rom. 5:10)

Jesus looked on the disappointed and fearful disciples KNOWING that He was going to accomplish a redemptive DEATH and a victory securing imparting of His resurrection LIFE. With God all things are possible.

You never utter ONE SOLITARY WORD about being JOINED to Christ as "one spirit" .

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

It culminates in the divesting of ones worldly wealth and giving it to the poor. Christians preach the nonsense doctrine that it is impossible and man is totally depraved. Jesus never said that.

You as usual sound self righteous.

"And looking upon them, Jesus said to them,

With man it is impossible ..."

WHAT is impossible?
See the previous concern of the disciples -

" ... they were greatly astonished and said, Who then can be saved?"

The answer is - the man helped by the God for whom all things are possible can be saved. This is a matter of God's grace.

I say not only His grace outwardly upon man but also His grace inwardly within man.

Apart from His grace "Who can be saved?".

2. Riches and worldly possessions are a great hindrance to those who want eternal life.

And the disciples said "WHO .. can be saved" including BOTH materially rich and materially poor. Otherwise they might have asked "What RICH MAN ... can be saved ?"

As it stands they knew that it was impossible with any man.

3. With God all things are possible and it is those who follow Christ and do the commandments will get eternal life in the Kingdom of God

The only One who can keep the commandments of Jesus is Jesus.
Man needs to be redeemed by Jesus and receive the resurrection life of Jesus to live one spirit with them.

"He who is joined to the Lord is one spirit." (1 Cor. 6:17)

"the last Adam became a life giving Spirit" (1 Cor. 15:45b)

But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible. ... Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name's sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life. (Matthew 19:26-29 KJV)

Those who follow Christ will inherit eternal life in the regeneration when Jesus returns

The CONJUNCTION "AND" proves that Jesus is speaking of TWO matters. One is of GIFT and the other is of REWARD.

" ... receive a hundred times as much"

That points to REWARD.

"AND ... shall inherit eternal life."

That speaks of GIFT.

Originally posted by @philokalia
Correct.

Very legit question.

The rancor that it has received only serves to validate it.

It's a slippery slope. If it weren't all trustworthy how on earth could anyone tell which parts are trustworthy and which parts aren't?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
It's a slippery slope. If it weren't all trustworthy how on earth could anyone tell which parts are trustworthy and which parts aren't?

So if it IS all trustworthy, how do we detect THAT fact?

This seems to be where faith separates itself from truth, in terms of the need for verifiability. Otherwise, why is faith elevated, if it has to be detectably trustworthy like ordinary claims about the world?

Originally posted by @js357
So if it IS all trustworthy, how do we detect THAT fact?

This seems to be where faith separates itself from truth, in terms of the need for verifiability. Otherwise, why is faith elevated, if it has to be detectably trustworthy like ordinary claims about the world?

Facts and faith, personally I believe there’s more faith than facts in all walks of life.

Originally posted by @kellyjay
Facts and faith, personally I believe there’s more faith than facts in all walks of life.

Reality is a collective hunch.
- attributed to Lily Tomlin

Originally posted by @js357
So if it IS all trustworthy, how do we detect THAT fact?

This seems to be where faith separates itself from truth, in terms of the need for verifiability. Otherwise, why is faith elevated, if it has to be detectably trustworthy like ordinary claims about the world?

If anyone decides to trust the Bible it would make sense to trust all of it. It makes no sense to trust only the parts that you like.

Originally posted by @js357
So if it IS all trustworthy, how do we detect THAT fact?

This seems to be where faith separates itself from truth, in terms of the need for verifiability. Otherwise, why is faith elevated, if it has to be detectably trustworthy like ordinary claims about the world?

So if it IS all trustworthy, how do we detect THAT fact?

By obedience the trustworthiness of God's word more and more reveals itself. Through trials His promises are experienced and a kind of approvedness is built up in you.

"God was faithful to bring me through many times now. I believe He will AGAIN be faithful to bring me through. "

However this relates often to more subjective trials and not just belief in some external facts about something that happened in the Bible.

I have the feeling that you may be more concerned not with how God will support you in living but some hard to believe instance in the record of the Bible, like Joshua's long day or Hezekiah seeing the sun dial shadow go backwards.

I have learned to trust this occurrences as factual though I didn't witness them. But the promises of God experienced in trials, obstacles, temptations, difficult situations of daily living cause a growing trust in God's word.

This seems to be where faith separates itself from truth, in terms of the need for verifiability. Otherwise, why is faith elevated, if it has to be detectably trustworthy like ordinary claims about the world?

The order is FACT ---> FAITH ----> EXPERIENCE.

Now it may bother us to live that way. But that is the way it is with God's word.

As a young man I first put my life in the hands of Jesus.
There was a brief honeymoon period. And then I face my first SORE trial - the near divorce of my mother and father. This was very painful and caused me to throw my whole being into trusting God.

God was faithful. I came through in victory over anxiety, fear, depression.

Now, things in Scripture like Joshua's long day or Hezekiah's seeing the shadow of the sundial go backwards were still astounding things to have read happened. But more immediately were the promises of God I needed to see me through some personal situations.

Confidence grew with me. The whole book of the Bible won my trust.

I think first you have to make sure you understand what is being SAID. Sometimes we take things for granted. Difficult places in Scripture I often examine closely to see what EXACTLY is it saying.

For some reason, for the One to have called the universe into being to do things transcending the laws of nature (if it suits some purpose of God) does not seem a big issue to me.

The first verse in the Bible should give us heads up that we are dealing with ultimate power and authority.

" In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. " (Genesis 1:1)

He called the things not being as being. It should indicate that His power is infinite. He starts with a miracle.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
If you don't believe the entire Bible is divinely inspired and is completely trustworthy in totality, why do you believe any of it at all? It makes absolutely no sense to pick only the parts you like and brush the parts you don't like under the carpet and pretend that they don't exist. That is the most intellectually dishonest behavior I have ever seen. It's either all or nothing.

I heard george washington had wooden teeth.

He didn't. I'm saying that just because something about someone is in a book doesn't mean it must be true or everything else said about that someone must be false. All or nothing seems like a recipe for failure.