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Originally posted by @divegeesterYou know, I enjoy reading them.
Why do you keep posting copy pasted lists of scriptures at me?
Pretty much every time someone pastes in Scripture, I enjoy afresh reading them in spirit.
The word of God is guileless.
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Originally posted by @sonshipWhat you posted (specifically your use of the word “guileless&rdquo😉 reminded me of this passage from early in the Gospel of John where Jesus used the word “guile.”
You know, I enjoy reading them.
Pretty much every time someone pastes in Scripture, I enjoy afresh reading them in spirit.
The word of God is guileless.
“Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.
And Nathanael said unto him, Can there any good thing come out of Nazareth? Philip saith unto him, Come and see.
Jesus saw Nathanael coming to him, and saith of him, Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!
Nathanael saith unto him, Whence knowest thou me? Jesus answered and said unto him, Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.
Jesus answered and said unto him, Because I said unto thee, I saw thee under the fig tree, believest thou? thou shalt see greater things than these.
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.”
(John 1:45-51)
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01 Mar 18
1 edit
I also was looking carefully if the question was answered "Why Did Jesus say He was the Temple ?"
The reason must be because Jesus Is the temple of God.
Jesus has to convince us that the temple of God is Himself.
Jesus said He was the dwelling place of God, the house of God, the temple of God because He is God living in Him on the earth, in the universe. And this not temporarily but for eternity.
"And the Word became flesh and taberncaled among us ..." (John 1:14a, Recovery Version)
God as the glorified and resurrected man is not only for the church age, not only for the duration of the millennial kingdom, but for eternity.
A few more English translations of John 1:14
King James Bible
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,
Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and dwelt among us.
Holman Christian Standard Bible
The Word became flesh and took up residence among us.
Young's Literal Translation
And the Word became flesh, and did tabernacle among us,
American King James Version
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelled among us,
Darby Bible Translation
And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us...
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Originally posted by @romans1009
And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.”
I am glad you mentioned that because in this passage also Jesus strongly indicated that He was the temple of God.
He referred to Jacobs's dream of a ladder set up on the earth with the angels of God ascending and descending upon it in Genesis 28.
Jacob arose from that dream and called the place a dreadful and awesome place. He did not realize that that place was "Bethel" - the house of God.
So not only in John 1:18-22 did Christ teach that He was God's living temple. Also in John 1:51 He is the eternal "house of God" - "Bethel".
So much needs to be said about this wonderful revelation.
On the earth, God is busy building a house, a temple, where humanity and divinity are united.
The Head, Foundation, Cornerstone is Jesus Christ - God incarnate, died and resurrection and glorified as the eternal tabernacle and temple of God in man.
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Originally posted by @divegeester
It is interesting and you would think a three-person god would have indeed said “the father will raise it up”. Jesus being a temple, a body of flesh for the essence of god to reside in, is a temporary office.
Where do you see this? That God residing in body of flesh is a temporary office ?
(Minus any vitriol. Just tell me why you believe this. I'll tell you why God and man are united for eternity.)
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01 Mar 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterAre you implying that I still use the fetch account?
As I said the only thing that is of interest about you is your use multiple accounts and your pretence that you don’t.
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01 Mar 18
Did Jesus teach here that His death and resurrection were:
1.) Going to happen.
2.) Was important.
Concerning why "SIGN" He would do to indicate His authority to treat the people in the temple in Jerusalem as He did:
"Jesus answered and said to them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up." (John 2:19)
Does it sound like His being destroyed and coming back was critical to His work on earth ?
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01 Mar 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterAdmission of guilt is a good start. 😉
That’s probably true.
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Three posters I can think of have made Christ's incarnation seem to be a temporary thing. I hope I am being fair.
Rajk999, Galveston, Robbie, I think Divegeester all appear to me to use 1 Cor. 15:24-28 in a way suggesting Christ's office is temporary.
The glorified man in exaltation is God-man forevermore.
He will never put off His human nature.
He will never relinquish His office of Lord and Christ.
The glimpse into eternity we see in Revelation is that God the light is in the Lamb as the lamp into eternity.
"And the city has no need of the sun or of the moon that they should shine in it, for the glory of God illumined it, and its lamp is the Lamb." (Rev. 21:23)
The Lamb - the Redeemer - the Godman is the lamp out from whom God as the glory and the light shine forever.
The [singular] throne upon which They sit is "the throne [singular] of God and the Lamb.
[b] "And he showed me a river of water of life, bright as crystal, proceeding out of the throne[singular] of God and of the Lamb in the middle of its street." (Rev. 22:1)
The throne of God and of the Lamb is the throne of He who reigns forever and ever.
"And the seventh angel trumpeted, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying,
The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of His Christ, and He will reign forever and ever." (Rev. 11:15)
But there is also something much more.
How much capacity do you have reader?
Can you take something more?
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I must go off to bed now.
I will be contemplating the Gospel of the Sweetness of Jesus.
Tomorrow, I hope I can convince some of you that the ENTIRE CITY .... the ENTIRE CITY of NewJerusalem is the eternal Holy of Holies.
That was the innermost chamber of the tabernacle and the temple where the shikinah glory of God was.
The whole eternal city is the holy of holies where God LIVES. This is seen in that the dimensions of the city are a perfect cube like the holy of holies in the temple of God.
"And the city lies square, and its length is as great as the breadth. And he measured teh city with the reed to a length of twelve thousand stadia,
the length and the breadth and the height of it are equal." (Rev. 21:16)
From The Life Study of Revelation messages given by Witness Lee around 1978 (?)
https://www.ministrybooks.org/SearchMinBooksDsp.cfm?id=0328E900C7
Verse 16 says that “the city lies foursquare.” The length is the same as its breadth. The fact that New Jerusalem is square signifies that it is perfect and complete in every way, absolutely straight and not in the least oblique.
The length, breadth, and height of New Jerusalem are equal; it is twelve thousand stadia in each dimension. Twelve thousand is one thousand times twelve. Since twelve signifies absolute perfection and eternal completion in God's eternal administration, twelve thousand signifies a thousand times this.
According to its measurements, New Jerusalem is a cube. The dimensions of the Holy of Holies, both in the tabernacle and in the temple, are equal in length, breadth, and height (Exo. 26:2-8; 1 Kings 6:20). The Holy of Holies in the tabernacle was a cube measuring ten cubits in each dimension, and the Holy of Holies in the temple was a cube twenty cubits in each dimension. That the length, breadth, and height of New Jerusalem are equal signifies that the entire New Jerusalem is the Holy of Holies. Therefore, New Jerusalem is the Holy of Holies enlarged to the uttermost.
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01 Mar 18
Originally posted by @dj2beckerPraise the Lord for the blood of Christ. Amen.
Admission of guilt is a good start. 😉
Goodnight.
Originally posted by @sonshipI've explained in a post further back with scriptures please have a look.It is interesting and you would think a three-person god would have indeed said “the father will raise it up”. Jesus being a temple, a body of flesh for the essence of god to reside in, is a temporary office.
Where do you see this? That God residing in body of flesh is a temporary office ?
(Minus any vitriol. Just tell me why you believe this. I'll tell you why God and man are united for eternity.)
Jesus was born, his flesh had a beginning and it therefore, by definition, is not eternal and therefore has an end.
Hear me out sonship...
If you look at the scriptures I quoted you will see contradiction within them, some saying Jesus kingdom and his reign over it is forever, other saying not so, that he will hand over authority to the father.
Now the trinity deals with this by presuming three persons and making one lower than the other at times, etc. The unitarian model of the Godhead (for want of a better adjective) describes what is happening in one person, one super being, being manifested in multiple ways:
- wrapped in a veil of flesh
- a powerful but comforting and counselling gentle spirit
- an almighty God
But the same person - with these offices he holds serving each other to reveal his purpose. So when Jesus hands over the kingdom to the father it is not one person handing authority to another, it is a change of office.
The office of son is NOT eternal, there is NO "eternal son".
Can you see that, even if you don't agree with it?
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Originally posted by @divegeesterDivegeester! 90% agreement with the old waffling sonship ??
Well, that 10% disagreement is sure a dusie!
I've explained in a post further back with scriptures please have a look.
Jesus was born, his flesh had a beginning and it therefore, by definition, is not eternal and therefore has an end.
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That's what I believe too.
"The Word became flesh" (John 1:14)
Hear me out sonship...
If you look at the scriptures I quoted you will see contradiction within them, some saying Jesus kingdom and his reign over it is forever, other saying not so, that he will hand over authority to the father.
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I'm listening.
Have you though, considered this?
The ever submissive Son delivers up the kingdom to God His Father, AND it is the will of God the Father that the Son reign forever and ever.
I don't see the Son delivering up the kingdom to His Father as a sign of any disharmony, competition, rivalry, what-so-ever.
For God to be "all in all" has to include the Son who is God.
"And when all things have been subjective to Him, the the Son Himself also will be subjected to Him who has subjected all things to Him,
that God may be all in all." (1 Cor. 15:28)
You see this as Christ the Son being in a sense "fired" from His office. I don't at all. I merely see the uttermost harmony of the Divine Trinity.
is there anything in the climax book of Revelation indicating that Christ the Son's exaltation and enthronement is terminated ?
Now the trinity deals with this by presuming three persons and making one lower than the other at times, etc. The unitarian model of the Godhead (for want of a better adjective) describes what is happening in one person, one super being, being manifested in multiple ways:
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That's fine. The word "person" or "persons" can only be taken so far. Human language is limited to express this Father - Son - Holy Spirit relationship exhaustively.
Before I quoted some theologians and you seemed not to want to consider their words. In some cases I think what the brothers of the past sometimes said was pretty wise.
Ie.
"The persons mutually contain each other, and all the three have an immeasurable whereabouts, so that wherever one Person is there the other two exist ...- Bishop Bull
the coinherence [mutual indwelling] of the Divine Persons is indeed a very great mystery, which we ought rather religiously to adore than curiously to pry into. No similitude can be devised which shall be able in every respect apt to illustrate it; no language avails worthily to set it forth, seeing that it is a union which far transcends all other unions."
From "The Testimony of Church History Regarding the Mystery of the Triune God" Bill Freeman.
We speak something not from a pride that we can completely explain God, but rather not to remain completely silent about Him.
- wrapped in a veil of flesh
- a powerful but comforting and counselling gentle spirit
- an almighty God
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Amen to the enjoyment of God the Spirit.
But the same person - with these offices he holds serving each other to reveal his purpose. So when Jesus hands over the kingdom to the father it is not one person handing authority to another, it is a change of office.
The office of son is NOT eternal, there is NO "eternal son".
Can you see that, even if you don't agree with it?
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The best way to take in these things is to say "Amen" to whatever the word of God utters to us.
While this may not suite the human pride to bring systematic consistency to all the mysteries of the Bible, it does facilitate our participation in God, because we trust that God has uttered His word and we may trust it and Him.
Don't you wish me to also believe that Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever ?
"Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today, yes, even forever." (Hebrews 13:8)
How about I believe both - the Son delivers up the kingdom to His God and Father that God may be all in all, AND ... "Jesus Christ is the same, yesterday, today, and even forever." ?
How about I say "AMEN !!" to all that the word has told us?
(I believe that "yesterday" there means since His resurrection. )
Jesus is the same - SINCE His resurrection, today, and on into eternity.
That is all the time I have this morning.
Originally posted by @sonshipIf you cannot preach and teach others how critical it is to follow Christ commandments and to OBEY these commandments then you are preaching mouth worship. Its that simple.
Praise the Lord for the blood of Christ. Amen.
Goodnight.
Its fine to know and to understand and to believe and to have faith.. in fact it is great to achieve all those things. However it is nothing .. NOTHING .. without obedience to Christ's commandments which transforms an ordinary person into a vessel of good works and righteousness. The Holy Spirit which you claim to have is not working in you.
You do not preach this and you have therefore failed.