08 May 14
waste their so called intelligent lives discussing and cussing the existence or non existence of a higher power. In some cases helping to cause despair and hardships, hatred and even death and destruction upon themselves and their families. Wouldn't their limited time on earth be more productive and pleasurable thinking of something more creative and pleasing to others? Just asking. Are we all crazy?
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Originally posted by cashthetrash
waste their so called intelligent lives discussing and cussing the existence or non existence of a higher power.
You, I bet, have not the foggiest clue as to why we are here in the universe.
If I am wrong then instead of our allegedly nonsensical talk about God and His plan, you tell us why human beings are here.
I do not mean wait to be bailed out by one of the old timer atheists coming to speak for you. You asked about fruitless talk. You explain the meaning of human life.
I have heard the others already. None of them have a clue. In fact they often seem to resent being asked, like "Why does there have to be a meaning for life anyway?"
Or they may say "I'm here because my mother and father had sex and I came."
Revelation 21 and 22, the climax of the Bible, tell us where everything is being directed as a consummation of human history. I count that as the meaning of the universe. Since you dismiss God's existence - you tell me why we exist.
Don't just leave me with chirping crickets at midnight now. You're so cock sure that God talk is nonsense, surely you have a better answer to the riddle of existence.
In some cases helping to cause despair and hardships, hatred and even death and destruction upon themselves and their families. Wouldn't their limited time on earth be more productive and pleasurable thinking of something more creative and pleasing to others? Just asking. Are we all crazy?
Yea, we're all somewhat crazy. But there is a salvation from our damaged minds if we come to Jesus the Savior. Christ is sobriety. Christ had a perfectly normal mind.
The rest of us are way below the normal standard and therefore consider Jesus Christ to be some strange enigma. Normal is Jesus Christ.
If no "higher power" then why are we here ?
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Originally posted by C HessIt may address HOW you came. It doesn't really address why.
I have yet to see someone dispute that one, so it has to be a good answer.
This is one problem with modern folks, they take the mechanics of physical material to be the only answer to life's questions.
Scientism thinks no truth can be known except through the scientific method. Of course that itself is a philosophical tenet which cannot itself be proved by science.
08 May 14
Originally posted by cashthetrashbecause we are spiritual
waste their so called intelligent lives discussing and cussing the existence or non existence of a higher power. In some cases helping to cause despair and hardships, hatred and even death and destruction upon themselves and their families. Wouldn't their limited time on earth be more productive and pleasurable thinking of something more creative and pleasing to others? Just asking. Are we all crazy?
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Originally posted by C HessJesus is normal. Jesus shows how far the rest of us have fallen from what is normal.
Tell that to a certain portion of catholic priests. 😕
Okay Jesus had no physical wife. But Jesus had and has perfect self control. And man was made to have self control.
So I do not mean all that Jesus experienced is what normal life should be. I do mean that His manhood, His way of living was what God meant by Man.
Normal is Jesus Christ. His coming exposes how far the rest of the human race has FALLEN from what God created to be normal.
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Originally posted by C HessI think you enlarged the scope somewhat.
The why would be because they loved each other?
Either that, or their parents were really set on having grand children. 😕
I do not claim I was QUOTING anyone exactly. Perhaps it was only put to me that way once in the six or more years I have been on this forum. It may not have always been said with that bluntness. "They had sex and I came." That's a paraphrase.
But too often the answer we got was nothing more than the physical conceiving of themselves from their mother and father.
I could say the reason I got married is because a automobile took me to the wedding. But it would be more than that.
God's great love manifested in Christ and imparted to the one saved by Christ gives tremendous meaning to one's life. It is an inseparable love. It is a love which will occupy the loved one for eternity. Not starting at death but starting at the moment one believes into Christ.
Otherwise you may well be fwarfed by the sheer sense of insignificance in the cosmos.
Did you ever see a movie called "The Incredible Shrinking Man"?
It had a very interesting philosophical statement at the end.
The man who was physically shrinking into microscopic size nonetheless KNEW that he meant something. Nothing else in the universe was like himself though he was dwarfed by the rest of the universe.
We are not accidents plunged into an abyss of absurdity.
God became a man so man must mean a lot to God.
And that gives us meaning, enough to last us to forever and ever.
Originally posted by sonshipActually, the last time we discussed this, you accepted my argument that life could have meaning even in the absence of God.waste their so called intelligent lives discussing and cussing the existence or non existence of a higher power.
You, I bet, have not the foggiest clue as to why we are here in the universe.
If I am wrong then instead of our allegedly nonsensical talk about God and His plan, you tell us why human beings are here.
I do n ...[text shortened]... e some strange enigma. Normal is Jesus Christ.
If no "higher power" then why are we here ?
Which rather confirms that not only did you not listen to what I had to say, you didn't even listen to what you said.
And the argument 'why does life have to have meaning?' is not said in resentment. It is a perfectly valid question that you need to answer. Otherwise you are falling into a syllogistic trap of saying:
1 Life must have a meaning.
2 Life has no meaning without God.
3 Therefore God must exist.
Which is the closest I have come to rationalising why you actually do believe in God.
Unfortunately premise 1 is not necessarily true. And you have admitted already that premise 2 is false.
So before you dismiss so glibly what you think others have said perhaps you need to think out your own position first.
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08 May 14
Originally posted by sonshipNo I'm pretty sure I'm here because my parents loved each other.
I think you enlarged the scope somewhat.
I do not claim I was QUOTING anyone exactly. Perhaps it was only put to me that way once in the six or more years I have been on this forum. It may not have always been said with that bluntness. "They had sex and I came." That's a paraphrase.
But too often the answer we got was nothing more than the physical ...[text shortened]... an must mean a lot to God.
And that gives us meaning, enough to last us to forever and ever.
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Originally posted by Rank outsiderHi Rank.
Actually, the last time we discussed this, you accepted my argument that life could have meaning even in the absence of God.
A man or women certainly may make some purpose for their lives, being atheists. I probably pointed out that in the final analysis it would be a vanity.
The whole of the cosmos would expand into the dark freeze of the final end of the disorder of all matter. The suns all die. The stars all collapse to black holes. All life is gone and all atoms disperse into the end of energy.
It will have made no difference what you lived for in that eternal cold darkness of end of entropy.
But for your brief moment, yes, one may carve out something to keep him from total boredom.
Which rather confirms that not only did you not listen to what I had to say, you didn't even listen to what you said.
Negated by the re-affirmation of agreeing somewhat, stated above. Besides now, you had your shot. My last asking of this question was to cashthetrash.
It is his/her turn now. And I ask not for the individual only but for mankind as a whole. I might be happy with a reply to either at this point.
And the argument 'why does life have to have meaning?' is not said in resentment. It is a perfectly valid question that you need to answer. Otherwise you are falling into a syllogistic trap of saying:
Would you not say that if life has NO meaning then the detail of the natural world is absurd ? Look at the DNA molecule. Does it not cry out that there is a purpose ?
I think so.
1 Life must have a meaning.
It probably does given the tuning with which the universe permits us to exist.
It probably does given the intricate design of biological systems, especially human beings.
It probably does because Jesus Christ said it does. He said we mean much more than the birds and other lower creatures. So we must be meaningful to the Creator.
"Look at the birds of heaven. They do not sow nor reap nor gather into barns, yet your heavenly Father nourishes them. Are you not of more value than they." (Matt. 6:26)
Jesus did not say the birds were of no value. Rather He asked "Are you not of more value than they." The answer to the rhetorical question should be "Yes". Human beings are of more value than the lower animals.
Therefore there must be a purpose for them, God's purpose.
2 Life has no meaning without God.
Ultimately if no God, life is finally absurd.
How you lived, in the end, whether well or not well, whether good or bad, will mean nothing. The blackness of frozen space and scattered star dust will swallow up everything billions of years after the sun has swallowed up the planet earth in a red giant and humanity has long gone.
Have you heard the last movement to Gustav Mahler's 6th symphony, the Tragic ? Gorgeous beauty struggles to remain alive only to finally be swallowed up in the ominous relentless drum beat of a funeral march.
All beauty is snuffed out with one final scream of death.
3 Therefore God must exist.
Now you are saying this.
You may choose to assure yourself that God does not exist.
But you will live in an emptiness and never have true deep peace.
You'll be as restless as the waves of the churning sea.
Peace comes when you are reconciled to God through justification of Christ's salvation.
You'll know that such great love has bestowed eternal meaning upon you.
Nothing can ever separate you from the love of God in Christ Jesus.
That is meaning enough to last you through eternity.
Which is the closest I have come to rationalising why you actually do believe in God.
I guess the most powerful reason why I believe in God is because I find that Jesus Christ is a believable Person. Someone like Jesus Christ is belieavble - ALL things considered.
It is more difficult for me to believe there is no God then it is believing in the Son and the Father. However, I count this to be God's sheer mercy towards me.
Read aloud four chapters of the Gospel of John. I think you will see that this Person Jesus, is believable.
All things considered leading up to the arrival of Jesus - He is believable and what He spoke and did has the ring of wonderful authenticity.
