Why does the human species

Originally posted by sonship
Hi Rank.......authenticity.

But for your brief moment, yes, one may carve out something to keep him from total boredom.

No, I entered the debate because you were arguing that any meaning in the absence of God was essentially delusional. But you eventually agreed that life could have meaning even in the absence of God.

Would you not say that if life has NO meaning then the detail of the natural world is absurd ?

No

Look at the DNA molecule. Does it not cry out that there is a purpose?

I assume you mean some greater purpose, in which case no.

1 Life must have a meaning.

It probably does given the tuning with which the universe permits us to exist.

No. You might as well argue that a winning lottery ticket was ‘tuned’ to allow you to win the lottery, and so your winning must be part of some greater plan.

It probably does given the intricate design of biological systems, especially human beings.

You really should read up a bit on evolution.

It probably does because Jesus Christ said it does. He said we mean much more than the birds and other lower creatures. So we must be meaningful to the Creator.

Well, Jesus Christ probably didn’t exist. And he probably didn’t say what he is recorded as saying. And even if the first two are true, he probably wasn’t the son of God.

2 Life has no meaning without God.

Ultimately if no God, life is finally absurd.

No. You think life without God is absurd. I don’t. I think God, as portrayed by Christians, is absurd.

Have you heard the last movement to Gustav Mahler's 6th symphony, the Tragic ? Gorgeous beauty struggles to remain alive only to finally be swallowed up in the ominous relentless drum beat of a funeral march.

All beauty is snuffed out with one final scream of death.

You tried this last time, but with Brahms 1st. I challenged why permanence was necessary to give meaning to something. I asked you whether, if human beings were immortal (but there was no God), would their lives suddenly have meaning. You agreed that it would not. So permanence is not really the issue.

Out of interest, if you turned up in heaven, and God confessed that, rather than being strictly immortal, he only had another 100 billion years left to live, would you suddenly believe your existence has no meaning?

But you will live in an emptiness and never have true deep peace.

You'll be as restless as the waves of the churning sea.

How intensely arrogant and self-satisfied of you to tell me how I feel, and to imply that your life is so superior to mine.

Oh, and incorrect.

I guess the most powerful reason why I believe in God is because I find that Jesus Christ is a believable Person.

You mean, by being a person who violates known laws of physics, chemistry and biology?

Born of a virgin, able to perform miracles, come back to life once dead etc

That kind of thing?

Originally posted by Rank outsider

But for your brief moment, yes, one may carve out something to keep him from total boredom.

No, I entered the debate because you were arguing that any meaning in the absence of God was essentially delusional. But you eventually agreed that life could have meaning even in the absence of God.

[quote]Would you not say that if life ha ...[text shortened]... of a virgin, able to perform miracles, come back to life once dead etc

That kind of thing?

Highway 66 revisited (DYLAN) say no more squire

Originally posted by Rank outsider

But for your brief moment, yes, one may carve out something to keep him from total boredom.

No, I entered the debate because you were arguing that any meaning in the absence of God was essentially delusional. But you eventually agreed that life could have meaning even in the absence of God.

[quote]Would you not say that if life ha ...[text shortened]... of a virgin, able to perform miracles, come back to life once dead etc

That kind of thing?

While i do not for a single moment intend to justify such self righteousness on the part of whoever stated that their life has more meaning than someone else because they do not profess belief in the divine its hard for me to see how life without God has any more meaning than squirrelly the red squirrel, who gathers nuts, finds a mate, builds a nest, has children and then retires from squirreling. Perhaps someone can explain why this has meaning?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
While i do not for a single moment intend to justify such self righteousness on the part of whoever stated that their life has more meaning than someone else because they do not profess belief in the divine its hard for me to see how life without God has any more meaning than squirrelly the red squirrel, who gathers nuts, finds a mate, builds a nest, ...[text shortened]... s children and then retires from squirreling. Perhaps someone can explain why this has meaning?

Life has the meaning you give it, nobody and nothing else can give it meaning for you.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
While i do not for a single moment intend to justify such self righteousness on the part of whoever stated that their life has more meaning than someone else because they do not profess belief in the divine its hard for me to see how life without God has any more meaning than squirrelly the red squirrel, who gathers nuts, finds a mate, builds a nest, ...[text shortened]... s children and then retires from squirreling. Perhaps someone can explain why this has meaning?

Meaning how? My life hold meaning to me, and I would hope my loved ones. If you're
talking about some other form of meaning, I don't know what you're talking about.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Life has the meaning you give it, nobody and nothing else can give it meaning for you.

No i dont think you can hide behind the thin veil of subjectivity here, there was an analogy provided which tried to ascertain that if there was no divine entity then how can life have meaning. Stating that its whatever meaning we wish to imbue it with does not even come close to answering the question.

Originally posted by C Hess
Meaning how? My life hold meaning to me, and I would hope my loved ones. If you're
talking about some other form of meaning, I don't know what you're talking about.

I am not saying that your life has no meaning, i am simply trying to ascertain what kind of meaning it has. Wow man, deep!

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No i dont think you can hide behind the thin veil of subjectivity here, there was an analogy provided which tried to ascertain that if there was no divine entity then how can life have meaning. Stating that its whatever meaning we wish to imbue it with does not even come close to answering the question.

I am not hiding behind anything.

No being, divine or otherwise, can imbue my life with meaning.

Only I can imbue my life with meaning.


However. If you believe [idiotically] that meaning can only be imbued by a
divine being, then in the [real world] situation where no divine beings exist,
there is no meaning. To which I say, so what?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not saying that your life has no meaning, i am simply trying to ascertain what kind of meaning it has. Wow man, deep!

Aaaah-I came across a bit on the strong side there. 🙂

No I just don't know what other kind of meaning a life could have, that would be... well, meaningful.

Originally posted by googlefudge
I am not hiding behind anything.

No being, divine or otherwise, can imbue my life with meaning.

Only I can imbue my life with meaning.


However. If you believe [idiotically] that meaning can only be imbued by a
divine being, then in the [real world] situation where no divine beings exist,
there is no meaning. To which I say, so what?

I am not asking if a divine being can imbue your life with meaning, what I am asking is what kind of meaning your life has?

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
I am not asking if a divine being can imbue your life with meaning, what I am asking is what kind of meaning your life has?

Whatever meaning I give it... You weren't expecting personal details were you???

Originally posted by C Hess
Aaaah-I came across a bit on the strong side there. 🙂

No I just don't know what other kind of meaning a life could have, that would be... well, meaningful.

It must be those gamma rays playing havoc! Its a difficult question to answer i think.

Originally posted by googlefudge
Whatever meaning I give it... You weren't expecting personal details were you???

No just the jist of it.

Originally posted by robbie carrobie
No just the jist of it.

That is the gist.

My life means whatever I decide it means.
It has what meaning I choose to give it.
[Which includes the option of not meaning anything at all]

Everything else is personal details.


Why on Earth does it matter to you?

Originally posted by googlefudge
That is the gist.

My life means whatever I decide it means.
It has what meaning I choose to give it.
[Which includes the option of not meaning anything at all]

Everything else is personal details.


Why on Earth does it matter to you?

I still dont see why your life has any more meaning than squirrely the red squirrel , who gathers nuts, builds a nest, finds a mate and retires from squirreling when all his kids grow up.