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24 Jun 18
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your version of the Trinity, as a teaching (but I accept Christ etc) will I be precluded from being filled with the spirit of Christ and subsequently from salvation and inevitably end up in Hell/Gehenna?
Yes or no...
This is is important, it’s a salvation and hell issue so please be unequivocal.
You should be fair to me as well.
When you wrote your "good confession" and kind of cynically said - "Am I one of the gang now?" in somewhat of a cynical way, I thought to myself -
"This man thinks there is some assurance that I or some others can get together and grant him. Like he's in the club and accepted. I don't understand this too well."
You may have your doctrinal problems with a difficult issue that has been discussed for almost two thousand years - namely the mysterious relationship and nature of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit.
If you receive Jesus, you should have the assurance that you know Jesus that you know Jesus that you know Jesus.
You won't need me or anyone else to say "OK, you're in our gang now." That's between you and the anointing within that teaches you and no man needs to teach you. His anointing will teach you.
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24 Jun 18
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I would say you should let the pure word of God have more priority than creedal statements, creedal formulas. No theological creeds transcend in importance what the Word of God states.
Don't ask me to give you the assurance that only God can give to human beings.
Eternal redemption and eternal life as a gift are not exactly the same thing to me as "filled with the Holy Spirit" .
The church in Corinth, i believe consisted of brothers and sisters in Christ. They had all kinds of issues and problems. Some even doubted that there would be a resurrection from the dead ! (chapter 15).
They were not NOT in the brotherhood because having intellectual problems with the resurrection of the saints from the dead. But I would not go as far to say it had no effect on their being FILLED .. with the Spirit. Their philosophical concepts effected their growth in the spiritual life.
So depending on how you think about Who Jesus is may effect your enjoyment of Jesus. And limitations on your enjoyment of Jesus may effect you being filled with the Holy Spirit.
You or I may have the Holy Spirit but put some restrictions on how much He fills our lives.
24 Jun 18
Originally posted by @kellyjayThe concept of hell is very misunderstood by mainstream Christianity... like so many other doctrines. Hell according to them is the abode of Satan. When bad people die they go to hell, and are tormented etc. All nonsense.
Maybe I missed your biblical passages that addressed Hell as not being a real place, if
you don't mind sharing them again or telling me where I can find them, I'd be grateful.
Unless you can show me why I shouldn't accept the doctrine of Hell as not literal I'm
going too. You do have an issue in one since several different words were used that
were translated into the singular word Hell. So please be specific.
Jesus Christ and Jonah was in hell. Were they burning ?
24 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @rajk999As I pointed out to someone else, there were several words used for different things that
The concept of hell is very misunderstood by mainstream Christianity... like so many other doctrines. Hell according to them is the abode of Satan. When bad people die they go to hell, and are tormented etc. All nonsense.
Jesus Christ and Jonah was in hell. Were they burning ?
were all translated into the one word, Hell. When we talk about one, that doesn't mean we
are talking about the others, so there will be some confusion. The lake of fire for the day of
judgment is the one I believe everyone is having a difficult time with.
I agree with you it is misunderstood and confusing.
24 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipEffect your enjoyment of Jesus
So depending on how you think about Who Jesus is may effect your enjoyment of Jesus. And limitations on your enjoyment of Jesus may effect you being filled with the Holy Spirit..
Effect ? Whats that about
Jesus said somewhere to ENJOY Him?
Are you some kind of pervert ?
Jesus said to FOLLOW Him.
Follow his commandments.
Everything about you and your doctrine is getting more and more weird and perverted
24 Jun 18
Originally posted by @rajk999There's no joy in you apparently.
[b]Effect your enjoyment of Jesus
Effect ? Whats that about
Jesus said somewhere to ENJOY Him?
Are you some kind of pervert ?
Jesus said to FOLLOW Him.
Follow his commandments.
Everything about you and your doctrine is getting more and more weird and perverted[/b]
24 Jun 18
Originally posted by @sonshipSo you are unable to give me a yes or a no?
[quote] Sonship help me here please...if I reject what you cannot snider to be the truth, I.e. your version of the Trinity, as a teaching (but I accept Christ etc) will I be precluded from being filled with the spirit of Christ and subsequently from salvation and inevitably end up in Hell/Gehenna?
Yes or no...
This is is important, it’s a salvation ...[text shortened]... er that comes out binary, simplified and perhaps in the exact words you want or suspect to hear.
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24 Jun 18
Originally posted by @divegeesterThe complex of questions which you phrase as you do, I will not be trapped into giving a binary simplified answer betraying the finer nuances of the issue.
So you are unable to give me a yes or a no?
Your complex of saved + filled with the Spirit + trinity is too involved.
A simple - YES might lead to a wrong impression.
A simple - NO might also lead to a wrong impression.
Does he mean the doctrine of the Trinity or does he mean the living Person of God?
Does he mean just saved or filled with the Spirit?
Does he mean a creedal formula or a theological creed dogmatically worked out in umpteen points? Or does he mean a revelation that Jesus is God and God is Jesus ?
I'm not sure how you mean. Do you think when I received salvation I was totally well versed in the nature of God ? I was not. A requirement to be conversant in trinitarian exegesis was not a demand on me.
I knew that when I touched Jesus within I was touching God Himself. I was not that might convesant on the Father - Son -and Holy Spirit in deep creedal arguments.
25 Jun 18
2 edits
Originally posted by @sonshipIt’s the simplest question sonship and you won’t answer it because of your vanity.
The complex of questions which you phrase as you do, I will not be trapped into giving a binary simplified answer betraying the finer [b]nuances of the issue.
[/b]
Do you believe (right now, what do you believe...) that my rejection of the the belief in the trinity teaching (but acceptance of Christ in all other aspects) will preclude me from salvation, and therefore mean I will be in hell, yes or no?
Why won’t you answer me unequivocally, it’s an important question, surely a teacher such as yourself will be able to help me escape hell fire in this matter....??
25 Jun 18
Here is the real reason sonship won’t give a yes or a no on this...
If he says “yes you will be precluded from salvation”, he risks judgment for lying, because he knows that if I have accepted Christ in all other aspects, then I am saved.
If he says “no you will not be precluded from salvation”, he has to swallow his vanity and admit that his precious doctrine is actually not that important.
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25 Jun 18
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PMANOriginally posted by @divegeesterRomans 10:9
Sonship, same question for you but this time insert the rejection of the belief of eternal suffering.
Salvation issue or not? Yes or no.
Too complex for you the teacher again?
Years ago I pointed out your method of taking points of doctrine and other things you don't agree with and cleverly trying to force them to be critical Yes or No issues of salvation.
ie.
A: "This hymn should be sung slowly."
B: " Now we're singing it too slow."
A: "You mean I'll go to hell if I sing it this slow?
Yes or No?"
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25 Jun 18
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Originally posted by @divegeesterSo your heart felt plea for help is a sham and you're really only interested in winning a debate point.
Here is the real reason sonship won’t give a yes or a no on this...
If he says “yes you will be precluded from salvation”, he risks judgment for lying, because he knows that if I have accepted Christ in all other aspects, then I am saved.
If he says “no you will not be precluded from salvation”, he has to swallow his vanity and admit that his precious doctrine is actually not that important.
Who put the words about eternal punishment into the mouth of Jesus in the Gospels?
Produce textural critical proof that these were latter additions artificially amended to the Greek text of the NT.
Bump -
WHO PUT THESE WORDS INTO THE MOUTH OF JESUS ??
" But I will show you whom you should fear, fear Him who after killing, has the authority to cast into Gehenna,
yes, I tell you, fear this One." (Luke 12:5)
25 Jun 18
1 edit
Originally posted by @sonshipYour obfuscating.
Years ago I pointed out your method of taking points of doctrine and other things you don't agree with and cleverly trying to force them to be critical Yes or No issues of salvation.
Your doctrines on the trinity and eternal suffering are either something you personally believe are issues for salvation or you don’t. You cannot (comfortably) sit on the fence, it makes you look dishonest.