will of god v free will

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
That would make my wife omniscient too.

Perhaps there would be some scientists interested in studying her abilities. 😀 Let’s just say it's not a common phenomenon.

Originally posted by Halitose
Perhaps there would be some scientists interested in studying her abilities. 😀 Let’s just say it's not a common phenomenon.

The point is, what does "knowing their thoughts" really mean? Telepathy, or the ability to read expressions coupled with familiarity?

Originally posted by Nemesio
Sounds like your God is an idiot
Nemesio

Why would God make creatures that would choose against Him? What could possibly be the reason for this, a creation which He calls 'good?'

Let's say God had made Adam brilliant (which, by the way, He did. Naming every animal, classifying genus, etc., etc.), more brilliant than anything ever created. Further, let's say that instead of simply walking with the man and the woman in the cool of the evening, teaching them about Himself, God actually gave Adam intimate access to all of His Glory.

More, let's say God made Adam so superior to the rest of creation, that he could be compared to a star. Voice like a pipe organ, clothed in robes of light and jewels, more beautiful, more magnificent, more awe-inspiring than any other creature, brilliant beyond compare.

Wouldn't this scenario be eerily similar to the situation with Lucifer? Requiring God for his own existence, for some reason, did not cross Lucifer's incredible mind. So full of himself, his beauty, his brilliance, his lofty position, he thought, in essence, 'Who is God?! Look at me!'
Apparently, a third of the other angels thought the same thing toward him, as he persuaded the same to camp with him, instead of God.

He must really be something, in beauty, persuasion, etc., to swing that many away from God. Tricking the woman was easy pickings for him, but he was merely attacking man at his shared weakness: in love with the feminine-side of the creature, more than the God-side.

Without the real choice of God or fill-in-the-blank, there is no real choice. God revealed for the angelic host, and for the record of human history, it takes God to be good. Not in a good v evil sense, but good, in the intrinsic value sense.

When the man and woman had the scales fall off their eyes, as it were, they realized they were naked. They were naked before, and it didn't bother them... before the knoweldge of good and evil.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Do you seriously believe this convoluted, nonsensical rubbish? Why would the Almighty Creator of the universe go through such a complicated scheme to accomplish something that's preordained from Day One (or pre-Day One I guess)? Don't you see that the whole thing is something we could expect Man to think up i.e. that's he's the most important thing in the Universe except for his super powerful Big Daddy?

Actually, man is not the most important thing in the universe. Man was invited to the party only because someone else said, in essence, 'Screw You.'
I'd say that lends itself more toward humility than self-centeredness.
Your understanding of preordination is awry.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
[b]Why would God make creatures that would choose against Him? What could possibly be the reason for this, a creation which He calls 'good?'

Let's say God had made Adam brilliant (which, by the way, He did. Naming every animal, classifying genus, etc., etc.), more brilliant than anything ever created. Further, let's say that instead of simply wal ...[text shortened]... were naked before, and it didn't bother them... before the knoweldge of good and evil.[/b]

You believe that the Garden of Eden story actually happened as a historical event as described in the Bible? Do you also think the Greeks hid in a big wooden horse in front of Troy (which we actually found Troy unlike the Garden of Eden)?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Actually, man is not the most important thing in the universe. Man was invited to the party only because someone else said, in essence, 'Screw You.'
I'd say that lends itself more toward humility than self-centeredness.
Your understanding of preordination is awry.

That's even more absurd. Why didn't God merely play his little game with the angels? What did he need Man for?

Originally posted by Nemesio
Well, we know that St John is the product of later theology, but let's pretend it's not.

We do?

As stated, this is but one of many verses and passages which support the Trinity, and in turn, the Deity of Jesus. Jesus' many claims for Himself, as well as Paul assertions to the same make your contestation moot.

Another way to view the issue is to consider the titles, attributes, characteristics and essence of God described throughout the Scripture, over against the same used for Jesus Christ. Isaiah's descriptions of the coming Savior alone would render further discussion moot, as well.

The distinctions made by Jesus, by Paul and other writers merely garrison the truth: three distinct Personalities, one God.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
We do?

As stated, this is but one of many verses and passages which support the Trinity, and in turn, the Deity of Jesus. Jesus' many claims for Himself, as well as Paul assertions to the same make your contestation moot.

Another way to view the issue is to consider the titles, attributes, characteristics and essence of God described throughout the ...[text shortened]... s, by Paul and other writers merely garrison the truth: three distinct Personalities, one God.

Like Sybil but all-powerful, eh?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
Isaiah's descriptions of the coming Savior alone would render further discussion moot, as well.

Provided we all read through the same lens as you, sure.

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Provided we all read through the same lens as you, sure.

...and your lens doesn't distort it beyond recognition.

Originally posted by no1marauder
You believe that the Garden of Eden story actually happened as a historical event as described in the Bible? Do you also think the Greeks hid in a big wooden horse in front of Troy (which we actually found Troy unlike the Garden of Eden)?

I actually believe that man was created, as stated.
Sorry, but in my study of the Bible, I have yet to find the story of Hector, Paris, and the rest of the Troy account.
Would you give me some passages wherein that story may be found?

Originally posted by Bosse de Nage
Provided we all read through the same lens as you, sure.

Well, we can't divide the forest into separate trees and declare the forest doesn't exist, now, can we?

Originally posted by no1marauder
Like Sybil but all-powerful, eh?

More like light, but if Sybil helps you, you are more than welcome to hold to whatever thinking keeps you from hurting small animals and children.

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
I actually believe that man was created, as stated.
Sorry, but in my study of the Bible, I have yet to find the story of Hector, Paris, and the rest of the Troy account.
Would you give me some passages wherein that story may be found?

So if it's not in the Bible it never happened?

Originally posted by FreakyKBH
More like light, but if Sybil helps you, you are more than welcome to hold to whatever thinking keeps you from hurting small animals and children.

Unfortunately, your way of thinking makes it more likely you will do both.