07 Jan 08
Originally posted by darvlayQuite true darv. I was with Nolan Ryan when Roger met him the first time. Roger idolized Ryan. Ryan gave Roger his workout routine and also critiqued Roger's motion. No one has ever accused Nolan of steroid use, yet he was still throwing in the mid 90's at the age of 45 just like Roger. They are what are referred to as "freaks of nature and hard work".
Clemens is most often compared to who? NOLAN RYAN. When did Nolan Ryan retire and how old was he when he stopped throwing at players? (Hint: He never stopped). It's flat out wrong to say that "it just does not happen" or to blame fiery competitiveness (which he's had his entire career) on roid rage.
Granted, he made a mistake not talking to Mitchell ...[text shortened]... counsel? Look at how many players did speak. I bet you can count 'em on one hand.
Regarding the testimony of players, the Players Union was advising them NOT to speak to the Mitchell panel or to the counsel. Less than 5 or 6 did and they were directly subpoenaed and their testimony was limited.
08 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by PhlabibitSee, the beaners even misspell his abbreviated name. Technically it should have been Yas, right? But noooooooo...the beaners have to be different and spell it Yaz. But what can you expect from the people who gave Babe Ruth away for a song? How about the ones who traded the best pitcher they ever had because he was washed up, only to watch him win 4 more Cy Young awards for other teams and a couple of world series? Go figure....😛
Y
A
Z
!!
Maybe instead of red sox, they should have red faces???
08 Jan 08
3 edits
Originally posted by darvlayYou want a list? Off the top of my head....
"...but in cases like this look at history and usually history tells the story. Look at athletes in the past who've been accused of cheating. Most of them, in the end, are proven to have cheated."
Who are you talking about specifically and where is the proof?
Ben Johnson
Carl Lewis
Marian Jones
Pete Rose
Barry Bonds
Jose Canseco
Ken Caminiti
Lyle Alzado
Kornelia Ender
Barbara Krause
Carola Nitschke
All those Chinese swimmers since the 90's
Austrian cross-country ski team at the Salt Lake City Olympic Games.
Jari Isometsa
Mika Myllyla
Ross Rebliati
Janne Immonen
Harri Kirvesniemi
The Tour de France riders! Mon dieux!
etc etc etc
But more to the point, here is a list of 700+ cases of athletes found to have used performance enhancing drugs.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_sport
Here is a list of people who have been CLEARED....note there are only 26 people cleared of the charges.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sportspeople_cleared_of_doping_charges
That's about a 30:1 ratio. So, like i said, odds are he used 'em. But who knows...maybe he really is one of the few who didn't and he really was having a guy inject needles in his butt in his hotel room when no one else was around because he really did need a B12 boost.
Now, i recognize most of the people above failed a test and clemons just has a guy saying he used them which for sure is different. But all of the people above were high profile people in their sport, denied using drugs, but were proven/admitted to it later....except for Pete Rose of course....he just denied betting on baseball for years but then admitted it.
I'd say 80% chance he used em. 20% he didn't.
08 Jan 08
Originally posted by uzlessI sincerely hope that someone matching your description doesn't pull off a triple homicide and you get convicted to death row because someone was 80% sure it was you they saw pull off the crime. You knew you didn't do it, because you were home alone reading a chess book, but there was no one with you to back up your story. So, you get the lethal injection, and the process was fair to you. Sounds good to me I guess. 😕
You want a list? Off the top of my head....
Ben Johnson
Carl Lewis
Marian Jones
Pete Rose
Barry Bonds
Jose Canseco
Ken Caminiti
Lyle Alzado
Kornelia Ender
Barbara Krause
Carola Nitschke
All those Chinese swimmers since the 90's
Austrian cross-country ski team at the Salt Lake City Olympic Games.
Jari Isometsa
Mika Myllyla
Ross Rebliati
Ja ...[text shortened]... baseball for years but then admitted it.
I'd say 80% chance he used em. 20% he didn't.
08 Jan 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitClemens WAS washed up... until he found 'B-12'.
See, the beaners even misspell his abbreviated name. Technically it should have been Yas, right? But noooooooo...the beaners have to be different and spell it Yaz. But what can you expect from the people who gave Babe Ruth away for a song? How about the ones who traded the best pitcher they ever had because he was washed up, only to watch him win 4 more ...[text shortened]... uple of world series? Go figure....😛
Maybe instead of red sox, they should have red faces???
I hear he also gives his kid's "Flintstone's Injectable Vitamins"
P-
09 Jan 08
I don't really like anonymous sources, but yesterday the New York Times had an article saying that an anonymous source stated that Clemens talk about steriods all the time (this is evidence against Clemens statement that he only talked about steriods when it was newsworthy).
When you add this to the fact that Clemens buddy Petitte (who went from New York to Houston to New York with and attended his legendary work outs) used HGH from the same trainer. That Petitte's admission supports the fact that Macnamee's claims are truthful. The Clemens had a rejuvinated career after leaving Boston. His power style lasted longer than other people. His potentially roid rage reactions to Piazza. His bizarre explanation for injections he received. Who gets injection from a non-doctor? Who gets injections in the behind when they could have them on any part of their body? Who injects liticane in their rear end?
09 Jan 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitUh, you think homicide and HGH injection "guilt" are the same thing? You think you can possibly use the same kind of logic to send someone to jail versus speculating on whether or not they stuck a needle in their butt?
I sincerely hope that someone matching your description doesn't pull off a triple homicide and you get convicted to death row because someone was 80% sure it was you they saw pull off the crime. You knew you didn't do it, because you were home alone reading a chess book, but there was no one with you to back up your story. So, you get the lethal injection, and the process was fair to you. Sounds good to me I guess. 😕
What are you, on HGH? The next time I have to come in here to respond to this drivel, I'm crackin' skulls!
09 Jan 08
1 edit
Originally posted by jofazBecause "beyond a reasonable doubt" requires a higher level of certainty than "likely stuck it in his butt"
Obviously the punishment is different by why should there be a difference in determination of guilt different between HGH and murder?
The question is, "did clemons use steroids/hgh or not?"
Using your demands for proof the answer will always be not guilty because nobody knows for sure. Not much of a debate now is it. If you just want to say no one was there so no one can say for sure, then fine...we get that.
But if you actually want to attempt to answer the damn question then it takes a bit of speculation which, by frickin definition, is not conclusive.
Where's my skullcracker??