26 Jul 08
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Originally posted by shortcircuitIf you consider a team to be "in trouble" when they sweep two contending teams in consecutive series, then the Yankees were in terrible "trouble". Contending teams should try to get stronger, however; the Yanks have lost two big bats in Posada and Matsui and Chien Ming-Wang, who won 19 games in both of the last two years is out until at least September. The fact that they are looking to get better hardly means that the team was a non-contender previously - 3 whole games out in July doesn't mean you're out of the race, Mr. Expert.
First of all, I know exactly what I am talking about, and you alluding to anyone as having a big mouth is like the pot calling the kettle black. And you never, repeat never, said the pitchers wins were aspirational goals. You indicated the managemnet set goals for the players. Truth be known, those goals are laid out in their contracts by way of bonuse moves this may trigger by the teams they are competing with. It could be a very busy weekend.
I don't know what you are blathering about in your first two paragraphs. The point I made is simple (so even you should be able to understand it): players and management care a lot more about the number of wins a starting pitcher gets than they care about what his ERA is. One person in this thread evaluates this differently and thinks ERA is virtually the only thing that matters. I say he's nuts. Do you agree or not?
The value of ERA as compared to wins ain't much, so I still don't agree with you. Something like percentage of quality starts would be a better measure of how a starting pitcher normally pitches than ERA (which one bad outing in 10 can have a very negative effect on). At any rate, if you were taking no position on the Petitte-Zambrano issue than "Quoting and Replying" to my post discussing it was pretty dumb.
26 Jul 08
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Originally posted by PinkFloydMaranville failed to get in 13 times and was finally elected shortly after his death. Brooks Robinson was a power hitter (268 HRS) and considered the best fielding 3B of all-time.
Maranville didn't get in via the veterans committee and he didnt come close to hitting .281. Brooks Robinson didn't either.
EDIT: My bad; Brooks doesn't seem to have had any more power than Biggio.
27 Jul 08
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Originally posted by no1marauderHe's not considered the best by me--that would be Pie Traynor. 🙂
Maranville failed to get in 13 times and was finally elected shortly after his death. Brooks Robinson was a power hitter (268 HRS) and considered the best fielding 3B of all-time.
EDIT: My bad; Brooks doesn't seem to have had any more power than Biggio.
Nevertheless, he DID get in.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydIs Craig Biggio considered the best fielding catcher/second basemen/center fielder by anyone?
He's not considered the best by me--that would be Pie Traynor. 🙂
Nevertheless, he DID get in.
It must have been great of you to watch Pie Traynor's games to judge that he was a better fielder than Brooks Robinson.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by no1marauderI didn't get to see Pie any more than I watched Speaker or Dimaggio in their prime, but I am a student of the game and, like you I'm sure, have developed opinions based on research.
Is Craig Biggio considered the best fielding catcher/second basemen/center fielder by anyone?
It must have been great of you to watch Pie Traynor's games to judge that he was a better fielder than Brooks Robinson.
Biggio? Maybe--I'd have to ask every baseball fan on the planet to answer that question. My guess would be, yes.
27 Jul 08
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To my knowledge, Biggio is the only player in history that was sucessfully transitioned from catcher to 2B. There have been a few transitioned from catcher to the OF or 1B which are relatively easy transitions, and then Johnny Bench was transitioned successfully to 3B (although he was not gold glove caliber at 3B as Biggio was a 2B).
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by PinkFloydOf course I never saw Traynor play 3B either, but suffice it to say, the game that Brooks Robinson played was much more difficult than Traynor's day due to the invention of Astroturf. While Robinson did not play his entire career dealing with the turf, the combination of the turf and the better equipment made the speed of the hit balls much faster coming to the hot corner and Brooks had cat light reflexes that allowed him to make plays that many others could not. Mike Schmidt was also very flashy with the leather at 3B and he did deal with astroturf his entire career, and he deserves some consideration as well. There were also a few 3B who did not make the HOF but played some unbelievable 3B such as Doug Rader. But, if I had to choose one, I would probably stick with Brooks as the best, with Schmidt a close second.
He's not considered the best by me--that would be Pie Traynor. 🙂
Nevertheless, he DID get in.
27 Jul 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitYeah, 4 Gold Gloves at 2B definitely helps his chances. I think he'll get in with the 3000 hits anyway; maybe not on his first ballot.
To my knowledge, Biggio is the only player in history that was sucessfully transitioned from catcher to 2B. There have been a few transitioned from catcher to the OF or 1B which are relatively easy transitions, and then Johnny Bench was transitioned successfully to 3B (although he was not gold glove caliber at 3B as Biggio was a 2B).
28 Jul 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitThose points are sound,as are the ones that hold that players from Traynor's day faced tougher pitchers and a "less lively" ball.
Of course I never saw Traynor play 3B either, but suffice it to say, the game that Brooks Robinson played was much more difficult than Traynor's day due to the invention of Astroturf. While Robinson did not play his entire career dealing with the turf, the combination of the turf and the better equipment made the speed of the hit balls much faster comin ...[text shortened]... had to choose one, I would probably stick with Brooks as the best, with Schmidt a close second.
29 Jul 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitI'd pick Scmitty over Robinson on a fantasy team every time. I guess that has me ranking all-time rhird-baseman thus:
Of course I never saw Traynor play 3B either, but suffice it to say, the game that Brooks Robinson played was much more difficult than Traynor's day due to the invention of Astroturf. While Robinson did not play his entire career dealing with the turf, the combination of the turf and the better equipment made the speed of the hit balls much faster comin ...[text shortened]... had to choose one, I would probably stick with Brooks as the best, with Schmidt a close second.
1. Traynor
2. Schmidt
3. Robinson
4. Jimmy Collins or George Kell
29 Jul 08
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Originally posted by PinkFloydUh, that is apples and oranges. In fantasy, fielding doesn't usually count (although in some circumstances there is a factor for errors, but those are hybrid leagues and extremely rare). If fielding is out of the equation, then Mike Schmidt is hands down the best third basemen in history. You could also move Eddie Matthews up as well. Traynor would not come close in those categories because Schmidt and Matthews had way too much power advantage over Traynor's average and steals. It might be argued that Brooks would be a push against Traynor from a purely offensive standpoint in the fantasy game. You would have to say that George Brett and Wade Boggs' status would be elevated above Brooks/Traynor as well.
I'd pick Scmitty over Robinson on a fantasy team every time. I guess that has me ranking all-time rhird-baseman thus:
1. Traynor
2. Schmidt
3. Robinson
4. Jimmy Collins or George Kell
30 Jul 08
Originally posted by shortcircuitYep I shouldnt have used the word fantasy. The game I play does include fielding stats, and HRs don't count nearly as much as in most fantasy leagues. I play tabletop simulations, so every stat comes into play equally.
Uh, that is apples and oranges. In fantasy, fielding doesn't usually count (although in some circumstances there is a factor for errors, but those are hybrid leagues and extremely rare). If fielding is out of the equation, then Mike Schmidt is hands down the best third basemen in history. You could also move Eddie Matthews up as well. Traynor would not ...[text shortened]... say that George Brett and Wade Boggs' status would be elevated above Brooks/Traynor as well.
You are quite correct--in most fantasy leagues I've seen, Mathews or Schmidt would be the guy---even Mel Ott, since he qualified at 3rd a few years 🙂