Future Hall of Famers

I got quite a few chuckles reading this thread. There is some merit to some of the comments. Here are a few players that should be in the HOF already and are not:

Bert Blyleven. Bar none, the Dutchman was a horse and has 3000K's and I think 287 wins and a solid ERA.

Tony Oliva. A great OF who played on hoirrible knees and had one of the sweetest swings and a great batting avg and was a clutch hitter.

Dale Murphy. I will catch some flack for this one, but Murphy was an outstanding defensive outfielder, argueably the best powerhitter and one of the most feared hitters of his era. He won two MVP's and played for a horrible team. He retired early, on his own terms, but he compares quite favorably with Andre Dawson who is another deserving player. I like both of them more than Jim Rice.

Ken Griffey, Jr. First ballot, surely he was an oversight.

Craig Biggio. First ballot lock. Another oversight.

Jeff Bagwell. Will make it, but possibly not on the first ballot.

Ricky Henderson. obviously will make it.

Another guy who apparently won't make it, but one that I believe deserves consideration is Steve Garvey. He was the epitome of a clutch hitter although his numbers were not as great as others on the list. He was rock solid, played every day. An "old school" player who also had many post season and All Star Game heroics to his credit.

Jack Morris. He deserves seious consideration as well. He was a gamer with excellent numbers, post season experiences and championships.

Lee Smith. I have just never been a fan of Smith. Granted he threw the hell out of the ball and he got a ton of saves, and he will probably get in, but for my money, Fingers, Gossage, Eckersly & Sutter were all better.

Of the names you all bantered about, I believe the follwing will be in:

Greg Maddux
Tom Glavine
John Smoltz
Pedro Martinez
Derek Jeter
A Rod
Ivan Rodriguez
Randy Johnson
Albert Pujols if he stays healthy, but it is still way too early.


Roger Clemens should be but will probably suffer the same fate as Pete Rose, Mark McGwire, Joe Jackson, Barry Bonds, Rafael Palmiero & Andy Pettitte

Manny Ramirez, Jim Thome & Frank Thomas all have respectable numbers, but all are on the cusp when you consider the era they played in. They were all defensive liabilities, with Thome being the best defensively. They may get in, but I believe they will wait a bit IMO.

Mike Mussina is borderline.

Roy Halladay has a shot, but he will need to get at least another 100-120 wins, more than likely, although he is a great pitcher. (see Bert Blyleven)

I personally don't think Bernie Williams, Jeff Kent or Chipper Jones will get in (see Dale Murphy, Andre Dawson & Jim Rice)

Omar Vizquel in my opinion should not get in before Dave Concepcion, and I don't think Dave C. gets in unless the Old Timers vote him in. I do believe he is very deserving considering he is better offensively than many SS in the HOF and he was the first to employ the skip throw from the hole on Astroturf which revolutionized the position at that time. Gold Gloves are not enough to merit induction into the HOF (see Jim Kaat).

Curt Schilling is an interesting one. His post season status is huge. He is a gamer, no doubt. He was also a prima donna. I think he has a shot, but he will wait a bit before election. I would not put him in before Blyleven though.

This is my take, and hopefully I didn't omit anyone, but the memory fades as we get older.

Great post, shortcircuit!

I agree that it is a great post.
I do totally however, diagree with Biggio as a first ballot lock. In fact, despite 3000 hits I would be shocked if he is a first balloter. In any era Frank Thomas .302 BA, 520 homeruns 1701 RBIs (with two MVPs and three other top 3 finishes) is more likely to be a first balloter as in Manny Ramirez .312 BA, 509 hrs and 1666 RBIs (with 8 consecutive top 9 MVP finishes).
But definitely a great post.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
I agree that it is a great post.
I do totally however, diagree with Biggio as a first ballot lock. In fact, despite 3000 hits I would be shocked if he is a first balloter. In any era Frank Thomas .302 BA, 520 homeruns 1701 RBIs (with two MVPs and three other top 3 finishes) is more likely to be a first balloter as in Manny Ramirez .312 BA, 509 hrs and 1666 RBIs (with 8 consecutive top 9 MVP finishes).
But definitely a great post.

Biggio made the all star game one year as a catcher then beame a second basemen. He never played a third position on a year he made the all star team.
Most guys who could be both both middle of the order guys and lead off guys bat in the middle of the order. Neverthess, I do not think Biggio is right behind Rickey Henderson as a modern great lead off guy (certainly I'd take Tim Raines, Lou Brock and Ichiro Suzuki over Biggio). Then, I'd want to wait and see what other modern leadoff guys (Reyes, Hanley Ramirez, Soriano, Jimmy Rollins) do. Even Johnny Damon and Grady Sizemore could have great career numbers by the time the hag it up.
You are right about their defense, but Manny Ramirez and Frank Thomas were the premier hitters in their lineup through out their career. I think teams focused more a Bagwell than Biggio and I just find it tough to look at Biggio and say his career stands out as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
Biggio made the all star game one year as a catcher then beame a second basemen. He never played a third position on a year he made the all star team.
Most guys who could be both both middle of the order guys and lead off guys bat in the middle of the order. Neverthess, I do not think Biggio is right behind Rickey Henderson as a modern great l find it tough to look at Biggio and say his career stands out as a first ballot Hall of Famer.

I was thinnking about what you guys said about Biggio and decided to look up the numbers myself. According to Baseball-reference. com Biggio was an an All-star from 1991 to 1998 (except 1993) and in 1998 he played 159 games as a second baseman and is listed as All Star second baseman.

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Raines numbers pale in comparison. Ichiro is a great player, but he won't get 3000 hits, although he might have if he had played his entire career. Brock was a great player, but did not hit for the power or drive in the runs than Biggio did.

I believe Biggio's last All Star appearance was as an OF, alythough he was not a starter.

Originally posted by no1marauder
While I still think 3000 hits is an automatic in (no one who got 3000 hits has been denied the HOF but Rose), Biggio's career numbers are surprisingly limp. http://www.baseball-reference.com/b/biggicr01.shtml

.281 BA, .363 OBP and .433 Slugging are not particularly exceptional. Even worse, Biggio only hit over .300 four times in his career. So, maybe he won't make it.

Originally posted by shortcircuit
Come on, are you kidding me?

Allow me to paint you the entire picture.

Hits - 3,060
HR - 291
RBI 1,175
Runs scored - 1,844
Doubles - 668
Triples - 55
Total Bases - 4,711
HBP - 285
SB - 414
All Star - 91, 92, 94, 95, 96, 97, 98
Gold Gloves - 94, 95, 96, 97
Silver Sluggers - 89, 94, 95, 97, 98

HOF - first ballot!!!

Originally posted by no1marauder
Outside of hits and runs scored, none of those are exceptional. Is there any non-power hitter in the HOF who hit only .281 lifetime?

I think you minimize Raines' accomplishments. If he is not better than Biggio it is real close.
Raines has a .294 Career BA (11 points higher than Biggio) and 385 on base percentage (22 point higher) he stole 808 career stolen (378 more) bases and was sucessful a record 82% of time (Biggio 70😵.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Outside of hits and runs scored, none of those are exceptional. Is there any non-power hitter in the HOF who hit only .281 lifetime?

Originally posted by myteamtrulystinks
I think you minimize Raines' accomplishments. If he is not better than Biggio it is real close.
Raines has a .294 Career BA (11 points higher than Biggio) and 385 on base percentage (22 point higher) he stole 808 career stolen (378 more) bases and was sucessful a record 82% of time (Biggio 70😵.

Originally posted by darvlay
That doubles number is exceptional - 5th all-time. Total bases - 28th all-time.