01 Jul 11
Originally posted by quackquackAaaah, so now you believe that everyone in the HOF is immortal, and those not in the HOF are not? Please, don't even go there.
I understand the history of closers not being electedm but Rivera dominated for far longer than any of the other closers plus his post season numbers are insanely great. As long as he doesn't test positive for performanace enhancers he's a definite 1st balloter.
As far as Bagwell, he shouldn't even be mentioned in the same thread as Rivera.
Bagwell ...[text shortened]... 't a truly immortal player) is that google has 70,400 results for "Jeff Bagwell steriods"
Orlando Cepeda....immortal???
Phil Rizzuto....immortal?? (perhaps as an announcer, but not as a player)
Pee Wee Resse....immortal??
Dave Concepcion is as deserving of HOF as Rizzuto and Reese, but he is not in.
These are but a few examples of good players getting in based on playing for certain teams.
Pete Rose isn't immortal?? Immoral perhaps, but he deserves the HOF.
Andre Dawson gets in, Jim Rice gets in Dale Murphy is left out???
01 Jul 11
Originally posted by shortcircuitI definitely agree with what your examples. Your list was accurate and presented in a humorous way.
Aaaah, so now you believe that everyone in the HOF is immortal, and those not in the HOF are not? Please, don't even go there.
Orlando Cepeda....immortal???
Phil Rizzuto....immortal?? (perhaps as an announcer, but not as a player)
Pee Wee Resse....immortal??
Dave Concepcion is as deserving of HOF as Rizzuto and Reese, but he is not in.
These ...[text shortened]... but he deserves the HOF.
Andre Dawson gets in, Jim Rice gets in Dale Murphy is left out???
I just think we should look at guys like Pee Wee Reese as a mistake, not a lowering of the bar of what it means to be Hall of Famer.
I still think in 2012 Larkin and/ or Raines will be more likely to get the necessary Hall of Fame votes than Bagwell.
01 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by trev33It is based on three categories Trev.
how many people are added to the 'hall of fame' each year?
The first category is the Old Timers Committee.
They select one member who was by-passed during the regular election process and no longer eligible there.
(A player can stay on the ballot for a maximum of 15 years provided he receives at least 5% of the votes cast every year.
The player must have been retired for 5 full seasons as a player, before they are eligible.
Once they fail to garner 5%, they are out forever in the regular vote.)
The Old Timer's Committee submits players they feel are deserving of consideration.
Once they have prepared the nominees, the the full body of the living HOF members vote.
The process proceeds until they elect one member or no member at all.
Then there is the "special session" where media, writers, and "friends of the game" or "Negro leaguers" or what ever can be selected.
The main election occurs and a ballot is sent to every eligible voting member.
The member can vote for a maximum of 10 eligible players.
They may elect to submit a ballot with no players listed which counts in the main vote total.
The total amount of ballots received makes up the basis for that year.
In order for a player to be elected, he must be named on at least 75% of all ballots cast.
If no one receives 75%, no one is elected. If 5 do, then 5 are elected.
Turning in an empty ballot is a crappy way for a sportswriter to ensure no unanimous election.
If enough are sent in blank, it makes it more difficult to obtain the 75% threshold.
This is why some years you may only have 1 or 2 enshrined while other years 7 or 8.
- Joined
- 10 Jan 08
- Moves
- 19244
01 Jul 11
Originally posted by shortcircuithow many people vote?
It is based on three categories Trev.
The first category is the Old Timers Committee.
They select one member who was by-passed during the regular election process and no longer eligible there.
(A player can stay on the ballot for a maximum of 15 years provided he receives at least 5% of the votes cast every year.
The player must have been retired fo ...[text shortened]... d.
This is why some years you may only have 1 or 2 enshrined while other years 7 or 8.
02 Jul 11
Originally posted by trev33It is not a set number. To vote you must be a member of the BBWAA (Baseball Writers Association of America) for at least 10 full years.
how many people vote?
This gets you the right to cast one ballot. That being said, I have no idea how many members of the BBWAA there are with 10 years of membership.
It is quite a few though (I would guess somewhere between 350-400 but it could be more).
Then, whether or not they vote is up to them.
That is why they do not know ahead of time how many votes it will require for election.
Each year the total is different.
02 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by quackquackI suspect Bagwell will eventually get in unless the writers are convinced he did PEDs. Frank Thomas has better numbers in every area than all of the above (he's in the top 25 all time in HRs, RBIs, SLG and OBP and 10th in BB) and I won't be shocked if he makes it on the 1st ballot.
I think you can certainly bet the ranch that Rivera will be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Rivera is the most dominant player at his position and his an iconic player. Bagwell (a four time all star with performance enhancing rumors) just isn't an overwhelming candidate (his 41.7% HOF vote seems appropriate). His career is not that different than his pee ...[text shortened]... lgado, Frank Thomas, Fred McGriff and Andres Galarraga. All of those guys would come up short.
02 Jul 11
How about Craig Biggio? Do you think he makes it first ballot?
He is unique in that he is one of the few players who re-invented themselves at
a different position after being an All Star at the previous position.
Also unique is the transition was from catcher to 2B.
He was a prototypical lead-off hitter with pop.
He stole bases, and he is the all time leader in HBP.
He also is a member of the 3,000 hit club.
Either he or Jeff Bagwell will go into the HOF as the first wearing an Astro cap.
Unless, of course, they both are elected in the same year....possibly this year?
02 Jul 11
Originally posted by shortcircuitI wouldn't vote Biggio in at all; his overall numbers are pedestrian - a lifetime .281 with ordinary power and a bit of, but not exceptional, speed (average of 17 HRs and 24 SBs per 162 games).
How about Craig Biggio? Do you think he makes it first ballot?
He is unique in that he is one of the few players who re-invented themselves at
a different position after being an All Star at the previous position.
Also unique is the transition was from catcher to 2B.
He was a prototypical lead-off hitter with pop.
He stole bases, and he is the all ...[text shortened]... an Astro cap.
Unless, of course, they both are elected in the same year....possibly this year?
I suspect 3000 hits gets him in though.
02 Jul 11
Originally posted by no1marauderPedestrian???
I wouldn't vote Biggio in at all; his overall numbers are pedestrian - a lifetime .281 with ordinary power and a bit of, but not exceptional, speed (average of 17 HRs and 24 SBs per 162 games).
I suspect 3000 hits gets him in though.
Better go review the current entrants in the hallowed halls then.
Biggio's numbers dwarf several current members.
He is a cinch lock to make it. BET THE HOUSE ON IT!!
02 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by shortcircuitMaybe, but they remain pedestrian and unimpressive. x # of wrongs doesn't make a right. Does Jeff Kent belong in the HOF IYO? His numbers are mostly better than Biggio's.
Pedestrian???
Better go review the current entrants in the hallowed halls then.
Biggio's numbers dwarf several current members.
He is a cinch lock to make it. BET THE HOUSE ON IT!!
Barry Larkin isn't in yet and he has better offensive numers per PA and was a terrific SS.
03 Jul 11
Originally posted by no1marauderKent is borderline; probably out. His biggest problem is he didn't have his first big year until he was 30 years old. Between 1997 and 2005 he was absolutely a HOF quality player, but that might not be for long enough.
Maybe, but they remain pedestrian and unimpressive. x # of wrongs doesn't make a right. Does Jeff Kent belong in the HOF IYO? His numbers are mostly better than Biggio's.
Barry Larkin isn't in yet and he has better offensive numers per PA and was a terrific SS.
Larkin is comparable to Kent, but deserves extra credit for playing SS and in, by and large, a more pitcher friendly era than when Kent put up his big numbers.
03 Jul 11
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderI 100% agree. If 3000 hits weren't automatic Biggio simply would not be in. A .281 batting average in a hitting era without real power for a non-catcher/ non-shortstop just isn't overwhelming.
I wouldn't vote Biggio in at all; his overall numbers are pedestrian - a lifetime .281 with ordinary power and a bit of, but not exceptional, speed (average of 17 HRs and 24 SBs per 162 games).
I suspect 3000 hits gets him in though.