Originally posted by quackquackI just got done checking the standings in the NL Central over the last 7 years. In that time, the Cubs, Astros, and Cardinals have all taken turms winning the division with this year as no exception. The common denomenator is that they spend about 30 million more than the Pirates, Reds, and Brewers. You say it is incompetance, however, you ignore what they all have in common which is that they don't spend thet much on payroll. Perhaps the fact that they don't spend as much on pay roll is equivalent to incompetance? If so they are incompetant. However, who cares unless you are a fan of one of these teams? You obviously are not so you don't care at all. In fact, I think the media would agree with your perspective because it is the big market teams that bring in the rating during the post season. So perhaps they should just close up shop and go away. If so, I hope the fans don't pick up some other team to follow that is hunreds of miles or further to follow. I hope they all give up on MLB and watch it die a slow death.
C'mon man, everyone wants to be a division with the Pirates, Royals and Nationals. If you feel your team belongs there, it is because it is incompetent.
A salary cap is idiotic. You see in the NBA how only good teams get big named players and the rest of the teams just want to get rid of all their players so one day they can try to get a superstar. Fu ...[text shortened]... ance. If your team isn't cometiting at all in this decade perhaps contraction is the answer.
Originally posted by whodeyI am sure there is no doubt that the two most valuable franchises in the Central are the Cubs and the Cardinals. If it were any type of business you would expect them to be flagship franchises.
I just got done checking the standings in the NL Central over the last 7 years. In that time, the Cubs, Astros, and Cardinals have all taken turms winning the division with this year as no exception. The common denomenator is that they spend about 30 million more than the Pirates, Reds, and Brewers. You say it is incompetance, however, you ignore what they ...[text shortened]... f miles or further to follow. I hope they all give up on MLB and watch it die a slow death.
They also have better fan support and care more about the sport. In Pittsburgh (which wins titles in others sports) people care more about football training camp than baseball so it probably should not be a surprise that they have not reached .500 since they refused to keep their very talented core and let Baroid and everyone else leave.
Like any business, certain franchises have made decisions that have made them more attractive to their customer base. It also helps grow the sport. Paying for stadiums, paying for players the city in excited about, developing TV networks so fans can see games, pre-games, post games etc., having stores that sell cool team related products. Big market teams don't just magically make money; they invest in product. Sports like any business need this and teams that don't/ won't are not carrying their weight and certain don't desrve redistribution based on others success.
Originally posted by quackquackI don't argue with any of that. For example, the Reds during the 70's had a huuuge fan base. In fact, you could find Reds fans pretty much anywhere in the country. But then, they inexplicably just whizzed it all away to adopt a small market mentality. I suppose the reasoning was that Cincinnati was not a "big" city. However, they had a huge draw from three states which were Kentucky, Indiana, and the majority of Ohio.
I am sure there is no doubt that the two most valuable franchises in the Central are the Cubs and the Cardinals. If it were any type of business you would expect them to be flagship franchises.
They also have better fan support and care more about the sport. In Pittsburgh (which wins titles in others sports) people care more about football training ca ...[text shortened]... e not carrying their weight and certain don't desrve redistribution based on others success.
As for Cubs fans, they are a breed all their own. I would compare them to the Clevland Browns in that they have a loyal following despite any recent success to justify such support. Out of all the proposed "curses" rumored to be out there I think perhaps their curse is legitimate. After all, they spend the most of anyone in their division and even have sweet Lou as their manager yet they always find a way to fall short. They remind me a lot of the Mets in that the oragnization simply underperforms year after year after year. In comparison, the Brewers in their division as well as the Cardinals seem to over perform peoples expectations consistantly. In fact, I think if you threw the amount of money to the Cardinals ball club that the Cubs receive they would take the division pretty much every year. Sadly, even though the Brew crew outperform expectations every year and are a "good" franchize, they simply don't spend the cash to win their division. I would even throw the Yankees in the mix as a team that underperforms consistanlty. For example, there is absolutely no justification for them not making the play offs last year. I would even go so far as saying that if you instituted a salary cap so that every team spends the same every year, teams like the Yankees, and Mets, and Cubs would NEVER see the post season again!!
The Reds are in the NL Central where the first place team is only 7 games over .500. I might have sympathies for Baltimore which is in a loaded division but if the Reds can't compete in this division, then they never will be able to compete and baseball should not redistribute more to accomodate their incompetence. Sure, the Reds were great in the 1970s but that is 35 years ago.
Finally, I totally disagree with you on the Yankees. There are pleanty of teams which spend money (and the Yanks never get top draft picks becuase of where they finish in the standing and the picks they lose to sign players) and many teams which spend money are not even good. They made the playoffs 13 straight years and then last year they only won 89 games and finished behind the Red Sox and the Rays. Now they have the best record in the AL. Sure money helps; but you underestimate the fact that teams like the Yankees and Red Sox work hard to make their team great each year and teams like the Reds just don't use their resources the way they should.
Originally posted by quackquackYou sympathize with Baltimore being in a division of big spenders at the same time refute my contention that teams are basically buying their way into the play offs every year? You are either confusing me or you are confused yourself. Of course, nothing is 100% certain but on average they do.
The Reds are in the NL Central where the first place team is only 7 games over .500. I might have sympathies for Baltimore which is in a loaded division but if the Reds can't compete in this division, then they never will be able to compete and baseball should not redistribute more to accomodate their incompetence. Sure, the Reds were great in the 1970s ...[text shortened]... am great each year and teams like the Reds just don't use their resources the way they should.
It just strikes me odd that in a a world where everyone is so hell bent on "spreading the wealth" and making everything "fair" and how the wealthy and capitalists are the oppressors in society that somehow it applies to everything EXCEPT the world of MLB.
I know, I'll get Obama to put one of his czars as commisioner of MLB. That should do the trick!!
Originally posted by whodeyI feel bad for Baltimore because every year they are in toughest division. The Yankees and the Red Sox are every year top 5 teams and Tampa Bay is also an excellent team. Any of these three teams would be in first in the NL Central. The Orioles have a great stadium but is it better than Fenway? or have the tradition or Yankee Stadium? they have young talent but not like Tampa? There is no way baltimore can get a fan base like Boston/ New York.
You sympathize with Baltimore being in a division of big spenders at the same time refute my contention that teams are basically buying their way into the play offs every year? You are either confusing me or you are confused yourself. Of course, nothing is 100% certain but on average they do.
It just strikes me odd that in a a world where everyone is so ...[text shortened]... , I'll get Obama to put one of his czars as commisioner of MLB. That should do the trick!!
But the Reds are in the NL Central (where else would you want to be?) you have one big city Chicago (but it certainly isn't NY or LA), you have first place being about 7 games over .500, you can save money by not having to have a DH. If the Reds aren't competitive, it is no one's fault but theirs.
Originally posted by quackquackThis is not just about Baltimore and the Reds.
I feel bad for Baltimore because every year they are in toughest division. The Yankees and the Red Sox are every year top 5 teams and Tampa Bay is also an excellent team. Any of these three teams would be in first in the NL Central. The Orioles have a great stadium but is it better than Fenway? or have the tradition or Yankee Stadium? they have young by not having to have a DH. If the Reds aren't competitive, it is no one's fault but theirs.
The first 14 top pay roll teams currently ALL have records of .500 or better EXCEPT one who are the Mets and it is because the Mets have been plagued with injury throughout the year as well as having underperformed consistanly. Conversely, of the teams who are numbers 15-30 in payroll, only 5 of them have a record of .500 or better. Nuff said!! ðŸ˜
Just to recap, 13 of the top 15 pay roll teams have records of .500 or better. Of the "have me nots" only 5 of 15 have records of .500 or better.
You know, with data like this, at times it feels like trying to convince someone that the earth is not really flat. 😛
I really enjoy listening to fan of cheap teams cry even when the facts don't back them up.
Lets look at the bottom 7 teams in payroll and we can see that half of those teams are competitive. The bottom team in payroll is the Marlins. They are 5 games over .500 in second place, in a division with the defending World Champions and in the wild card race. The Twins and are 2 games out of first place and the Rays are in the Wild card race despite being in the toughest division in baseball. If 3 of the bottom 7 teams can compete, in a sport where different teams consistently win the World Series each year then the sport is competitive. If you happen to root for a team which gladly accepts luxury tax money and puts it in their pocket instead of spending it on their team, then you won't be good but that's not the sport's fault.
Originally posted by quackquackIts like asking, do you prefer death by electricution or by hanging. Of course, there are pro's and con's to both. The bottom line is that they should have had Rolan here at the beginning of the year and should not have traded away their pitching future to get him. In other words, they need to pony up and spend more or simply do nothing at all.
Do you prefer what the Reds are doing (getting some young pitchers and adding small pieces like Rolan) or what the Pirates are doing trading their whole team for any young player many of which are just going to be ordinary players at best?
I think since it is evident that Marauder was deluded into thinking that the Dreds had a shot at .500, we should still have some fun with this thread. I say we bet as to whether the Dreds will finish last or perhaps how long their losing stread will continue.
Right now they are losing to the Rockies 3-0 and the game is in the 7th. I think I will now just assume they lose and make predictions from there. Looking at the schedule, the Dreds play the Rockies for one more game, then on to the Cubs for 3 games, then play the Giants for 3, and then St Louis for 3 more. I will go out on a limb here and predict they lose every last one of these games. Then the next series is when the play the Natinoals for 3 and it is at that time I beileve they see their next win. As for the Dreds finishing last, if they don't I will be shocked!! 😲
Originally posted by whodeyThe Dreds have lost 8 in a row. Could my prediction actually come to pass? I know you all are awaiting anxiously to see if I'm right!!
I think since it is evident that Marauder was deluded into thinking that the Dreds had a shot at .500, we should still have some fun with this thread. I say we bet as to whether the Dreds will finish last or perhaps how long their losing stread will continue.
Right now they are losing to the Rockies 3-0 and the game is in the 7th. I think I will now just ...[text shortened]... hey see their next win. As for the Dreds finishing last, if they don't I will be shocked!! 😲
