16 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZambonerThe best players from around the world play in Major League Baseball... Because the MLB just happens to be in America does not mean it is not a World Championship.
It's a totally legit criticism.
"World Series Champions"
"Major League Baseball Champions"
These make sense.
"World Champions" does not.
Same goes for the NBA.
16 Apr 13
Originally posted by tomtom232It's still a team sport, sport. Just because MLB is the biggest league and boasts the highest paid players does not make its champion the World Champion just because. It's an assumption and nothing more to make that claim. Granted, it's a good assumption but it is not fact. There are 12 teams in the Nippon Professional League. Many of those teams boasting talent that teams in MLB bid a lot of money for just to talk to. These are not scrubs. The champion of that league deserves a modicum of respect, in my opinion.
The best players from around the world play in Major League Baseball... Because the MLB just happens to be in America does not mean it is not a World Championship.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZambonerThere are a "few" players in the Japanese league that teams bid on.
It's still a team sport, sport. Just because MLB is the biggest league and boasts the highest paid players does not make its champion the World Champion just because. It's an assumption and nothing more to make that claim. Granted, it's a good assumption but it is not fact. There are 12 teams in the Nippon Professional League. Many of those team ...[text shortened]... se are not scrubs. The champion of that league deserves a modicum of respect, in my opinion.
There is more talent in the Dominican League than there is in the Japanese League.
The overwhelming preponderance of talent is in the US.
And, if you want to make your case for the World Baseball Classic, look how
many of the teams have players from Major League Baseball playing on them.
It isn't the other way around.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by shortcircuitAll that is true, obviously. Still doesn't make the claim of "World Champion" anything more than an assumption.
There are a "few" players in the Japanese league that teams bid on.
There is more talent in the Dominican League than there is in the Japanese League.
The overwhelming preponderance of talent is in the US.
And, if you want to make your case for the World Baseball Classic, look how
many of the teams have players from Major League Baseball playing on them.
It isn't the other way around.
The Japanese League is still a professional league.
The Dominican League has some MLB players so I don't know how that overlap could be reconciled.
Regardless, my only point in all of this is that an objection to the term "World Champion" is not completely off-base. I believe the term should not be used but it doesn't prevent me from enjoying the sport. It's just tradition, I understand that. But it's outdated is all I'm saying.
17 Apr 13
You will notice that in the NHL, which also boasts the most hockey talent from around the world, the winners are proclaimed "Stanley Cup Champions", not World Champions.
It is ONLY the United States and particularly MLB and the NBA who use these outdated monikers and it is only Americans that attempt to defend its use by arguing that their league is the "best". It's truly ridiculous and arrogant.
At least, the NBA's best coach agrees with me:
"There are no world champions in the NBA, so anybody that has the flag up that says world champions is not correct. It’s not appropriate. The world champions, I believe, are the Spanish team right now. USA is the Olympic champion. The Lakers are the NBA champion. It doesn’t make sense for an NBA team to call themselves world champions. I don’t remember anybody playing anybody outside our borders to get that tag. Isn’t that true? I keep waiting for somebody to tell me I’ve missed something.”
- Gregg Popovich
17 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by ZambonerYour argument here is apples and oranges.
You will notice that in the NHL, which also boasts the most hockey talent from around the world, the winners are proclaimed "Stanley Cup Champions", not World Champions.
It is ONLY the United States and particularly MLB and the NBA who use these outdated monikers and it is only Americans that attempt to defend its use by arguing that their league is th true? I keep waiting for somebody to tell me I’ve missed something.”
- Gregg Popovich
First of all, National teams, such as Spain, are chosen from their entire population
and play together virtually uninterrupted.
In the NBA, they deal with labor unions, trades between several teams, drafts, etc...
If the US took the very best players and formed a national team, the team would be
even better than their Olympic team and they would beat the hell out of everyone,
Spain included.
The same is true of baseball. The World baseball Classic gets a smattering of our star
players, not the best of our best. Our best would blow away everyone in the world.
That is not to say they wouldn't lose a game, but they wouldn't lose a series.
Japans ballparks are bandboxes compared to the US. That is why no names from
MLB such as Boomer Wells and Tuffy Rhodes go there and become huge stars. If you
don't believe me, look it up. How many Japanese players really became stars in
MLB? Ichiro Suzuki, Hideo Matsui and then it falls off in the hitters. Yu Darvish
and Dice K, Hideo Nomo, Chan Ho Park were probably the best of the pitchers and none
bring chills to your spine...except maybe Darvish. So, you are wrong when you say
there is anything close to equality between the US and Japan.
The Dominican is MUCH closer to the US supremacy than is Japan, but, most of the
stars from the Dominican come to play in MLB. Because of these factors, World
Champion is not far fetched when the MLB World Series is over.
17 Apr 13
1 edit
Originally posted by shortcircuitPerhaps.
Your argument here is apples and oranges.
I think it's fair to say that the DR National Team are the World Champions and the San Francisco Giants are the current MLB or World Series Champions. Are the San Francisco Giants the best club team, for lack of a better word, in the world? Likely. Is it a proven fact? Have they demonstrated this by defeating the Nippon Professional Baseball Champions or the Dominican Professional Baseball League Champions? Unequivocally, no.
I'll leave it at that.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZambonerMost of these national teams are a collection of MLB players who play in tournments like WBC as a substitute for spring training.
Perhaps.
I think it's fair to say that the DR National Team are the World Champions and the San Francisco Giants are the current MLB or World Series Champions. Are the San Francisco Giants the best club team, for lack of a better word, in the world? Likely. Is it a proven fact? Have they demonstrated this by defeating the Nippon Professional Baseball ...[text shortened]... inican Professional Baseball League Champions? Unequivocally, no.
I'll leave it at that.
The World Champion is the champion of the best league. In baseball thats the MLB champion. Similarly the world champion in basketball is the NBA champion.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by quackquackSo what do you call the winning team of the WBC?
Most of these national teams are a collection of MLB players who play in tournments like WBC as a substitute for spring training.
The World Champion is the champion of the best league. In baseball thats the MLB champion. Similarly the world champion in basketball is the NBA champion.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZambonerThe DR team doesn't exist and has a member of the Giants on the team anyway, or,
Perhaps.
I think it's fair to say that the DR National Team are the World Champions and the San Francisco Giants are the current MLB or World Series Champions. Are the San Francisco Giants the best club team, for lack of a better word, in the world? Likely. Is it a proven fact? Have they demonstrated this by defeating the Nippon Professional Baseball ...[text shortened]... inican Professional Baseball League Champions? Unequivocally, no.
I'll leave it at that.
possibly two. I can't recall.
You are not going to prevail in this argument though. Tuffy Rhodes couldn't make a
roster in the US, yet he was the Japanese leagues' HR leader. Same was true of Boomer
Wells years ago. The talent is simply not even close to the US level. Look at how the
best of the best from Japan come to the US, and very few even make a difference on
their respective rosters. For every Ichiro, there are three Kaz Matsui's.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by shortcircuitI am not trying to convince anyone. No one "wins" arguments on the internet. I am giving my viewpoint and the reason why I disagree with yours. I was just curious what he calls them. What do you call them?
That is an exhibition. Those teams only exist for the duration of the tournament.
You are grasping now.
17 Apr 13
Originally posted by ZambonerI already said, they are an exhibition team, just like an Olympic team, or an All Star team.
I am not trying to convince anyone. No one "wins" arguments on the internet. I am giving my viewpoint and the reason why I disagree with yours. I was just curious what he calls them. What do you call them?
20 Apr 13
Originally posted by shortcircuitI've watched the WBC all three times and there didn't seem to be much difference between the talent levels of the top Japanese players and the top American ones. True, it's an All-Star team but so were everybody else's.
The DR team doesn't exist and has a member of the Giants on the team anyway, or,
possibly two. I can't recall.
You are not going to prevail in this argument though. Tuffy Rhodes couldn't make a
roster in the US, yet he was the Japanese leagues' HR leader. Same was true of Boomer
Wells years ago. The talent is simply not even close to the US level ...[text shortened]... a difference on
their respective rosters. For every Ichiro, there are three Kaz Matsui's.
Of course, the MLB has a significant portion of non-Americans (close to 30😵, so talking about the MLB team as "our" team is a bit silly.
I remain interested in what would happen in a "World" Series between the winner of the Japanese leagues and the MLB winner. I'm sure the latter would be favored, but you seem to imply it would be a slaughter. Is that what you believe? In a best of 7 series, you would say, what, the MLB team would sweep oh 90% of the time and win by an average of 10-1 every game? Or what?