Barry Bonds

Originally posted by no1marauder
It's simply a consumer choice issue. Allowing engine use would be perfectly "fair".[/b]

They're banned because people don't want to play them, at least without knowing they're playing an engine.

Interesting. And why don't people want to play an engine? Is it because it's not fair? Or are you seriously saying its just a style of play issue?

I don't want to play engines because I tune up at RHP to play OTB and engines don't play like humans so it would be counterproductive.

Oh, so that's what your anti-cheat crusade was all about. My misunderstanding.

Originally posted by dottewell
[b]Engines can play the entire game for you; they're not merely an "advantage" - they replace the human entirely. It's like playing Robby the Robot for Barry Bonds.

The question was why is this wrong. But if you prefer - why is it wrong to use an engine for one move, at a critical moment?

[b/]Professional athletes don't have AVERAGE physical talen stated my rough criteria for cheating, and they are necessarily rough. What are yours?[/b]

I won't waste much time with you. We've done this before andf all you ever do is parrot the same lines over and over and over and over again. See above for the engine issue. Your second "point" is utterly devoid of any sense; players who want to improve their muscle mass use steroids, players who want to improve their eyesight use laser surgery. I'm sure the average professional athlete has both better muscle mass AND eyesight than the general public, but they want to improve it even more in both cases. You'll keep insisting there's some difference. It doesn't make any sense.

No steroids won't improve strength if you do nothing. Neither will an improved diet. Keep saying it over and over again, but please at least find a site they sells steroids. You need to exercise and do other things to get the full effect. Same as a diet.

Whatever you do with the interior of body ain't cheating. Period. How's that for a nice clear standard?

Originally posted by dottewell
[b]They're banned because people don't want to play them, at least without knowing they're playing an engine.

Interesting. And why don't people want to play an engine? Is it because it's not fair? Or are you seriously saying its just a style of play issue?

I don't want to play engines because I tune up at RHP to play OTB and engines don't play ...[text shortened]... e.

Oh, so that's what your anti-cheat crusade was all about. My misunderstanding.[/b]

What was soooooooooooo unclear about my post?? Some people do like to play engines, but most don't. You'll have to ask them each individually why. I gave my reason; if you don't like it, tough shit.

Originally posted by no1marauder
What was soooooooooooo unclear about my post?? Some people do like to play engines, but most don't. You'll have to ask them each individually why. I gave my reason; if you don't like it, tough shit.

Blatant lies. You hate engine users because they are cheats. If you don't want to confront your own muddle-headed thinking, fine.

Originally posted by dottewell
Blatant lies. You hate engine users because they are cheats. If you don't want to confront your own muddle-headed thinking, fine.

Don't be stupid. Both those statements can be true; have someone who's not as moronic as you are explain how to you.

EDIT: Screw it, I'll try. The rules on the site are based on the stated preferences of the vast majority of users. They don't want to play engines on RHP. People who know that and choose to use an engine are not merely cheats, but inconsiderate, selfish SOBs. Understand why I don't like them?

Originally posted by no1marauder
I won't waste much time with you. We've done this before andf all you ever do is parrot the same lines over and over and over and over again. See above for the engine issue. Your second "point" is utterly devoid of any sense; players who want to improve their muscle mass use steroids, players who want to improve their eyesight use laser surgery. I'm sure ...[text shortened]... th the interior of body ain't cheating. Period. How's that for a nice clear standard?

This is unusually weasel-ish. Steroids combined with exercise will create more muscle mass than exercise alone. That's why it is "unnatural" muscle mass. Why do you think people use them?

There is simply no parallel with eyesight correction if that is restoring "average" eyesight and nothing more.

"Whatever you do with the inside of your body ain't cheating". Great. Let the teams/countries with the best drugs win. You may need something this childishly straightforward. I prefer my sport to mean something.

Originally posted by dottewell
This is unusually weasel-ish. Steroids combined with exercise will create more muscle mass than exercise alone. That's why it is "unnatural" muscle mass. Why do you think people use them?

There is simply no parallel with eyesight correction if that is restoring "average" eyesight and nothing more.

"Whatever you do with the inside of your body ain't ...[text shortened]... may need something this childishly straightforward. I prefer my sport to mean something.

Like I said you just parrot the same crap over and over again. You constantly ignore contrary points. You're a stubborn moron.

Try reading the Maddux quote again. I realize you're stupid but 20-20 vision is "normal" vision. 20-15 is not "normal" and Maddux says he's seeing better than he ever did. So tell me again how it's "correcting" his eyesight??????

You may feel the need to tell other grown ups what they can do with their own bodies; I don't. I could care less. You should grow up.

Originally posted by no1marauder
They don't want to play engines on RHP. People who know that and choose to use an engine are not merely cheats, but inconsiderate, selfish SOBs. Understand why I don't like them?

You are deliberately avoiding the issue of _why_ they don't want to play engines at RHP. You know damn well. And you are asking people to believe that your own reason is simply because you are "tuning up" for OTB. That's a lie.

They are cheats because what they are doing is not fair. It is not fair because they have an unfair advantage that requires no effort on their part. The fact this advantage is not "internal" is irrelevant.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Try reading the Maddux quote again. I realize you're stupid but 20-20 vision is "normal" vision. 20-15 is not "normal" and Maddux says he's seeing better than he ever did. So tell me again how it's "correcting" his eyesight??????

You may feel the need to tell other grown ups what they can do with their own bodies; I don't. I could care less. You should grow up.

Learn to read. If 20-15 is not "normal", I would consider it unfair.

People can do what they want with their bodies. Just not ruin sport.

Originally posted by dottewell
You are deliberately avoiding the issue of _why_ they don't want to play engines at RHP. You know damn well. And you are asking people to believe that your own reason is simply because you are "tuning up" for OTB. That's a lie.

They are cheats because what they are doing is not fair. It is not fair because they have an unfair advantage that requires no effort on their part. The fact this advantage is not "internal" is irrelevant.

Keep calling me a liar, you CSer. I gave my reasons and they're the truth. I don't think irrationally like you do; it wouldn't be "not fair" if it was allowed and everybody knew it was allowed. I said it and I meant it.

Originally posted by dottewell
Learn to read. If 20-15 is not "normal", I would consider it unfair.

People can do what they want with their bodies. Just not ruin sport.

You should join the fundies for a "holier than thou" moment. I fail to see how someone trying to enhance their performance, which all athletes do and are expected to do, is "ruining sport". Maybe they should all have to skip spring training so they're not more than average. Idiot.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Keep calling me a liar, you CSer. I gave my reasons and they're the truth. I don't think irrationally like you do; it wouldn't be "not fair" if it was allowed and everybody knew it was allowed. I said it and I meant it.

You completely fail to understand that it's not allowed precisely because it's not fair. Which is odd, because everything you have said and in the past suggests you understand that perfectly well.

Obviously if this was a site for computer or computer-aided chess, using engines would be fair. But it isn't. The question is whether engine use is fair at a correspondence chess site, and if not, why not. The answer to that question isn't "Because it's not that kind of site". It is "Because it gives an unfair advantage".

I ask once more before I give up: why do you think the majority of people here don't want to allow _any_ engine use? Just because it's not that kind of site?

Originally posted by no1marauder
You should join the fundies for a "holier than thou" moment. I fail to see how someone trying to enhance their performance, which all athletes do and are expected to do, is "ruining sport". Maybe they should all have to skip spring training so they're not more than average. Idiot.

Once again you fail to address the point. I'll try to make it clear: you improve your performance by hard work. That's what makes it valuable.

I've been as clear as possible on why corrective eye surgery - providing it only restores "normal" (read: 20/20) eyesight - is not cheating. Once more, just for you: a normal person does not have to do anything to have normal eyesight. The same is not true of huge muscle-bulk, aerobic capacity, etc.

Originally posted by dottewell
...I've been as clear as possible on why corrective eye surgery - providing it only restores "normal" (read: 20/20) eyesight - is not cheating.

If anyone can get an edge in wordwise , do you consider getting corrective eye surgery that improves your vision from the norm of 20/20 to 20/15 unfair? Yes or no will suffice.