13 Sep 21
@sh76 saidIf a neighbor's house is on fire and she refuses to use available tools to put it out, whose fault is it when it lights mine on fire?
When Connecticut, New Jersey and Pennsylvania pass Florida in new cases per capita, are you going to say the same thing about them?
13 Sep 21
1 edit
@wildgrass saidIf the available tools are high cost and of dubious utility, nobody's.
If a neighbor's house is on fire and she refuses to use available tools to put it out, whose fault is it when it lights mine on fire?
Anyway, blaming Florida schools being partially unmasked for COVID increases in other states is absurd.
13 Sep 21
@sh76 saidTexas is a good test case since about half of county school districts have mask mandates and half don't. The numbers strongly support the premise that masks worek.
You're assuming children masking works to significantly reduce the spread. Dubious.
If the issue is a small number having to quarantine for 7-10 days vs. everyone having to mask up, I'd have to weigh the numbers. I don't have a precise ratio, but my gut tells me that all-day masking is something like 1/5 to 1/10 as bad as e-learning. So, if you can show me that 10-20% of students are having to quarantine at any given time as a proximate result of not masking, I'll concede.
https://www.kxan.com/news/education/central-texas-school-districts-without-mask-mandates-have-more-covid-19-cases-data-shows/
I don't have the data on percent of kids out of school due to quarantine at a time. Obviously muddled by which schools require masks. There's one news story in texas about a county that recently implemented a mask mandate after 13 percent were quarantined.
13 Sep 21
@sh76 saidTools to fight community spread is obviously not just masks in school.
If the available tools are high cost and of dubious utility, nobody's.
Anyway, blaming Florida schools being partially unmasked for COVID increases in other states is absurd.
But maybe I could also get out the garden hose and water my own house down. Luckily it appears cases are coming down nationwide, under 100,000 for the first time in 3 weeks.
13 Sep 21
@wildgrass saidYup. As the wave in the South ebbs, the numbers will decrease for a few weeks. When autumn really starts to set in the upper midwest, you'll see the numbers start climbing again in all likelihood. Though, due to vaccines and prior infection immunity, the results shouldn't be nearly as bad as last year.
Luckily it appears cases are coming down nationwide, under 100,000 for the first time in 3 weeks.
20 Sep 21
Update:
"15 of the 16 states below the 37th parallel are currently showing an decrease in the #Covid19 hospitalization rate compared to two weeks ago (data: @nytimes). South Carolina is the only one up, by 3%. The US is split about in half for increase vs. decrease."
https://twitter.com/TheLawyerCraig/status/1440018452299780101
Nah. Seasonality ain't got nothin to do with it. It's all about masking 3 year olds.
20 Sep 21
@sh76 saidAnd the seven day average of deaths is all the way down to 1594 per day as of Saturday!
Update:
"15 of the 16 states below the 37th parallel are currently showing an decrease in the #Covid19 hospitalization rate compared to two weeks ago (data: @nytimes). South Carolina is the only one up, by 3%. The US is split about in half for increase vs. decrease."
https://twitter.com/TheLawyerCraig/status/1440018452299780101
Nah. Seasonality ain't got nothin to do with it. It's all about masking 3 year olds.
All is well; throw those masks in the trash!
20 Sep 21
@sh76 saidSheesh. Hyperbole much? Sure, there's seasonality but that doesn't preclude benefits of mask use. If anything that makes florida mandates even dumber. Masking adults and kids is just one of the available tools.
Update:
"15 of the 16 states below the 37th parallel are currently showing an decrease in the #Covid19 hospitalization rate compared to two weeks ago (data: @nytimes). South Carolina is the only one up, by 3%. The US is split about in half for increase vs. decrease."
https://twitter.com/TheLawyerCraig/status/1440018452299780101
Nah. Seasonality ain't got nothin to do with it. It's all about masking 3 year olds.
21 Sep 21
@wildgrass saidWildgrass,,,,,an analogy. Love analogies. Of course it is not the fiery neighbor's fault; this assumes she did not see it coming. No duty of care to the neighbor if she was not negligent with gasoline, or some such. The insurance companies would hash it out, in any event.
If a neighbor's house is on fire and she refuses to use available tools to put it out, whose fault is it when it lights mine on fire?
So to your point. If my covid brain is on fire and I walk into your house with the purpose of giving you covid, a case can be made, like if I have HIV and lay with a woman. Where is the fine line crossed, in either case. Jury trial!
23 Sep 21
1 edit
@wildgrass saidWhere is the evidence that masking kids actually has much of an impact? There are certainly costs.
Sheesh. Hyperbole much? Sure, there's seasonality but that doesn't preclude benefits of mask use. If anything that makes florida mandates even dumber. Masking adults and kids is just one of the available tools.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/school-mask-mandates-downside/619952/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743
Even the WHO advises against masking 5 and under and is very ambivalent about ages 6-11
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-children-and-masks-related-to-covid-19
23 Sep 21
@sh76 said"Whether there is widespread transmission in the area where the child resides
Where is the evidence that masking kids actually has much of an impact? There are certainly costs.
https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/the-science-of-masking-kids-at-school-remains-uncertain.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/09/school-mask-mandates-downside/619952/
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2781743
Even the WHO ...[text shortened]... out ages 6-11
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-children-and-masks-related-to-covid-19
The ability of the child to safely and appropriately use a mask
Access to masks, as well as laundering and replacement of masks in certain settings (such as schools and childcare services)
Adequate adult supervision and instructions to the child on how to put on, take off and safely wear masks
Potential impact of wearing a mask on learning and psychosocial development, in consultation with teachers, parents/caregivers and/or medical providers
Specific settings and interactions the child has with other people who are at high risk of developing serious illness, such as the elderly and those with other underlying health conditions."
That doesn't sound "ambivalent" to me given the conditions in most places in the US.
Of course, you know what the CDC and the American Academy of Pediatrics say, but for some reason you've gone all Metal Brain on this issue and think you know more than experts in the field.
You haven't really described any significant costs; some of the assertions made in the articles you mention have little scientific support:
"There doesn’t appear to be any research specifically on whether masking is detrimental to children’s social and emotional development, said Justina Schlund, senior director of content and field learning at the Collaborative for Academic, Social, and Emotional Learning, or CASEL."
https://www.edweek.org/leadership/face-masks-and-kids-separating-fact-from-fiction/2021/08
BTW, 2228 more deaths were reported from COVID in the US today.