07 Feb 08
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterTo get back on topic. They aren't rationing health care. That type of care is a luxury.
...'cause they're rationing health care there. How come Obama bin Laden and Madame Hillary never mention rationing when waxing eloquently about government-run health care for Americans? Could it be that the "R" word would stop any discussion of "free" health care dead in it's tracks?
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/short/336/7638/238
That's what you family should be doing, unless you are unfortunate to be alone. In the US you can pay and aide to do that for like 7 bucks an hour.
07 Feb 08
Originally posted by shavixmirMy employer exploits me and I exploit my employer shav, the relationship is one of mutual exploitation and that's a good thing. An employee does not have a right to x minimum dollars an hour, because that is not a 'right', Unless it has been negotiated and a contract has been entered into VOLUNTARILY by both parties.
It's forever amusing how rationalism (Ayn Rand laissez faireism if you will) says you have the right to freedom and property, but you don't have the right not to be exploited. Or health.
I wonder what's more important to people? Good health or a fence? An unexploited existence... or a spare bicycle tire?
"Health' is not a 'right' either, after all my training you're still struggling with the concept.
Nemmind, the one thing that you and Red continue to ignore, the one thing you have no answer to. In a free society there is nothing stopping people like yourselves getting together with other like minded types and all pulling together, forming collectives, giving 50%, 60%, 70%, of your income to the collective. You just can't force it on others.
Someone wants a fence, someone else wants good health. That's their business, that's NOT YOUR BUSINESS.
Someone wants an "unexploited existence" (what ever that means), someone else wants a spare bicycle tire. That's their business, that's NOT YOUR BUSINESS.
Randophobia alert - Randophobia alert
Again with with your Randophobia - A challenge for you Shav, show us where it says you "you don't have a right to be exploited", show us where Rand says you don't have a right to health. Show us Shav, show us, show us, shoooooowwwwwww ussssssssssssss!
08 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by WajomaHowever, living within a society means following the rules of that society. If the rules stipulate that you will contribute a part of your salary to free at point of delivery healthcare, then contribute you will. If you don't like it, try and change it or simply leave.
My employer exploits me and I exploit my employer shav, the relationship is one of mutual exploitation and that's a good thing. An employee does not have a right to x minimum dollars an hour, because that is not a 'right', Unless it has been negotiated and a contract has been entered into VOLUNTARILY by both parties.
"Health' is not a 'right' either, after to health. Show us Shav, show us, show us, shoooooowwwwwww ussssssssssssss!
As for your fence, well, it is the individual's business until it affects other people, then it's their business too.
08 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by scottishinnzI'm more interested in what is right and what is wrong than what the rule book says, which has become so big even experts specialising in one particular area struggle with it.
However, living within a society means following the rules of that society. If the rules stipulate that you will contribute a part of your salary to free at point of delivery healthcare, then contribute you will. If you don't like it, try and change it or simply leave.
As for your fence, well, it is the individual's business until it affects other people, then it's their business too.
08 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by shavixmirGive me an example of a communist state within living memory which did not degenerate into a a bankrupt tyranny in the Soviet mould or worse.
Was it? How do you reckon so?
That great communist pipe-dreamer, Redmike, can only reply "Blah, blah....ad nauseum" so perhaps you can do better?
Edit. Redmike has been very quiet since posting those words of wisdom.
08 Feb 08
History is littered with those who embarked on a quest for the communist, socialist utopian dream. The records show, all they ever delivered their citizenry was abject poverty and a horrendous number of deaths.
Joseph Stalin
Pol Pot
Vladmir Ilich Lenin
Mao Zedong
Ho Chi Minh
Idi Amin Dada
Fidel Castro
Francois Duvalier
To name a few.
08 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by MacSwainBut still clowns like Redmike and shavixmir believe in it. Or at least say they do,
History is littered with those who embarked on a quest for the communist, socialist utopian dream. The records show, all they ever delivered their citizenry was abject poverty and a horrendous number of deaths.
Joseph Stalin
Pol Pot
Vladmir Ilich Lenin
Mao Zedong
Ho Chi Minh
Idi Amin Dada
Fidel Castro
Francois Duvalier
To name a few.
09 Feb 08
Originally posted by der schwarze RitterI suspect that it has something to do with the fact that the teaching
Unfortunately, the youth of Europe are being taught this nonsense:
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=15441
profession tends to attract the less able types who, like Redmike and shavixmir for example, indulge in pipe-dreams of a Utopian State where they will inherit the Earth.
09 Feb 08
Originally posted by BogleIt really isn't difficult, though seems to need repeating for some. There hasn't ever been a communist state. Indeed, it is a contrdiction in terms.
Give me an example of a communist state within living memory which did not degenerate into a a bankrupt tyranny in the Soviet mould or worse.
That great communist pipe-dreamer, Redmike, can only reply "Blah, blah....ad nauseum" so perhaps you can do better?
Edit. Redmike has been very quiet since posting those words of wisdom.
10 Feb 08
Originally posted by RedmikeNever-never land in fact. Dream on and blah. blah. blah, away about it if it makes you feel better.
It really isn't difficult, though seems to need repeating for some. There hasn't ever been a communist state. Indeed, it is a contrdiction in terms.
12 Feb 08
Originally posted by BogleIt is noteworthy that the misfits in our society like Redmike and shavixmir who advocate communism never want to be associated with the communist regimes which have actually materialised in the real world.
Never-never land in fact. Dream on and blah. blah. blah, away about it if it makes you feel better.
Instead they burble on about the 'stateless communist state' which , being a contradiction in terms, can never be actualised and which is obviously nothing but a figment of their own overheated imaginations.
Both these pathetic champions of never-never land are best treated with contempt.
12 Feb 08
Originally posted by BogleYou have to wonder what kind of reaction they get when they tell people they believe in communism, etc. Most people probably give them a blank stare and say nothing, trying not to laugh, which they take as quiet agreement. Sad.
It is noteworthy that the misfits in our society like Redmike and shavixmir who advocate communism never want to be associated with the communist regimes which have actually materialised in the real world.
Instead they burble on about the 'stateless communist state' which , being a contradiction in terms, can never be actualised and which is obviously nothin ...[text shortened]... ginations.
Both these pathetic champions of never-never land are best treated with contempt.