09 Mar 08
2 edits
Originally posted by shavixmirStalin felt the same way. His answer, however, was a fascist approach in which his views and beliefs were compulsary for everyone. Is this your ideal society?
As a non-parent and a communist and an atheist, it does seem rather regrettable that religious capitalists can screw up my world by doing whatever they please with their children, though.
You know I will be the first to admit it is often difficult tolerating others who hold contradictory opinions and beliefs to my own, however, until I perfect mine I see no reason on demanding that everyone agree with everything I think.
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by shavixmirThis is a hard question to answer. It all depends on such factors as what in particular we are talking about specifically and what ages and all. As a rule, children should be given independence little by little over the course of their lives as they begin to master physical and intellectual abilities. This includes socialization issues.
My original question was (and is unanswered): How do you teach your children peer-related social interaction? Taking into consideration we are a society and all.[/b]
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by telerionA small fraction? A few? Where are you getting your figures from?
A small fraction of homeschools do a good job of organizing frequent (one per day or one every two days) meet ups with other homeschools. A few even meet with a local public school every so often.
Edit: And just think, a small itty bitty fraction of home schoolers actually have half a brain. 😉
09 Mar 08
2 edits
Originally posted by whodeyI am actually helping you here. Don't try to tell me that a large fraction of homeschoolers do these things at a once per day frequency.
A small fraction? A few? Where are you getting your figures from?
Edit: And just think, a small itty bitty fraction of home schoolers actually have half a brain. 😉
As for my data it comes from personal anecdotes and those of people who I know homeschool or have homeschooled their children (most of these through the 12th grade).
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by telerionI took the liberty of finding some statistical analysis on the matter. According to appendix to the book entitled, "Home Schooling in the United States: A Legal Analysis" by Christopher J Klicka, which contains the results of numerous independent evaluations of home schooling and various statistics on home schooling compiled by various school districts, it appears that home schoolers are by in large better educated than their publically schooled peers.
I am actually helping you here. Don't try to tell me that a large fraction of homeschoolers do these things at a once per day frequency.
As for my data it comes from personal anecdotes and those of people who I know homeschool or have homeschooled their children (most of these through the 12th grade).
Home School students scored as many as 30 percentile points higher than national public school averages on the Comprehensive Test of Basic Skills (CTBS). Dr. Brian Ray, president of the Home education research institute found no statistical differences in academic achievements of home schooled students taught by parents with less formal education and those students taught by parents with higher formal education.
Under controlled testing administered by Pennsylvania certified teachers, 171 home schooled students, averaging 16 hours per week in structured lessons planned by either the parent or provider of educational materials, took the CTBS standardized achievment tests and achieved the following middle scores; reading--89th percentile; math--72nd percentile; science--87th percentile; and social studies--81 st percentile.
Dr. Raymond Moore in "Home Schooling: An Idea Whose Time Has Returned" presents the results of a study of home schooled children whose parents were being criminally charged for home schooling. He reports these children scored on the average in the 80th percentile.
After presenting other similar statistics showing that home school children out-scored public school children in every subject, the appendix concludes: "....home schooling works. Even many of the State Departments of Education which are generally biased toward the public school system, cannot argue with these facts. Not only does home schooling work, but it works without the myraids of state controls and accredidation standards imposed on the public schools".
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by AThousandYoungIndeed. If you are a teacher in the public school system you should be on your hands and knees praying that children will not begin to shun the public school system. After all, greater numbers of children in the public school system equal greater dollar amounts being thrown into the public school system.
I'm not particularly in favor of this, but it is convenient. Just that little bit more need for me as an educator!
09 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by shavixmirNo, I don't. Apparently you haven't been following my posts in this thread.
Do you think you should force parents to have their children taught at all?
If so, then your question becomes pointless on the grounds that if we're forcing parents to do anything at all, it may as well be in the best interests of the child.
There are tons of studies indicating that tutoring away from a peer group leads to individualistic behaviour an ...[text shortened]... tes the fashion.
However, I would presume that home education does benefit direct knowledge.
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by whodeyI'm in a charter school. It's not quite the same thing as regular public school.
Indeed. If you are a teacher in the public school system you should be on your hands and knees praying that children will not begin to shun the public school system. After all, greater numbers of children in the public school system equal greater dollar amounts being thrown into the public school system.
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by whodeyThis is true for the children of parents who make an effort to educate their children during homeschooling and put forth the same sort of effort a professional teacher does. These parents exist and this works for them. How many children were tested whose parents are into unschooling? How many children were tested who are left to educate themselves because the parents have a high school diploma and thinks if their kids can recite a whole rosary and read at a first grade level then the school day is over at 10 in the morning and they can swim the rest of the day? How many children were tested whose parents claim they're being homeschooled but they aren't? Research into homeschooling is bogus if they only check the people who follow the rules and are doing a good job. That shows the potential of homeschooling, but not everyone's reality.
I took the liberty of finding some statistical analysis on the matter. According to appendix to the book entitled, "Home Schooling in the United States: A Legal Analysis" by Christopher J Klicka, which contains the results of numerous independent evaluations of home schooling and various statistics on home schooling compiled by various school districts, it ...[text shortened]... the myraids of state controls and accredidation standards imposed on the public schools".
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by whodeyBull. I'm currently a teacher in a public school, and taught for many years in Catholic schools. I care that all children have the opportunity to be well educated. This means that they have the opportunity to be whatever they want to be when they grow up as long as it is legal and they're self-supporting. I don't care what educational route they follow to get there. But I do care that they get educated, and many times I've had to pick up the pieces and bring a child up to grade level because their parents claimed to homeschool them. I've seen these children shunned because what they did learn at home was that their wants were all that mattered. They lacked self-control, perspective about their place in the universe, and the ability to complete a task. They were shunned by children tired of them bragging that they had been homeschooled as if being behind was a good thing and by children who didn't thing being loud and melodramatic was an asset. Teachers don't feel threatened by homeschooling parents any more than dentists feel threatened by patients with good oral hygeine.
Indeed. If you are a teacher in the public school system you should be on your hands and knees praying that children will not begin to shun the public school system. After all, greater numbers of children in the public school system equal greater dollar amounts being thrown into the public school system.
09 Mar 08
"A primary purpose of the educational system is to train school children in good citizenship, patriotism and loyalty to the state and the nation as a means of protecting the public welfare," the judge wrote, quoting from a 1961 case on a similar issue.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/03/07/MNJDVF0F1.DTL
😲
09 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by whodeyThe criticism that was laid forth was that homeschooled children are not well socialized. I wrote that a few homeschooled kids do get regular (every day) interaction in a structured learning atmosphere with other (non-sibling) kids. Then you came back with some studies about the scholastic performance of homeschooled children. Besides the fact that I'd like to see some other studies from groups that are not already precomitted to homeschooling, I really don't see how the studies you posted relate to the point of socialization.
I took the liberty of finding some statistical analysis on the matter. According to appendix to the book entitled, "Home Schooling in the United States: A Legal Analysis" by Christopher J Klicka, which contains the results of numerous independent evaluations of home schooling and various statistics on home schooling compiled by various school districts, it the myraids of state controls and accredidation standards imposed on the public schools".
I will look at what you cite, but sense I'm nearly positive that you pulled this off the internet, would you mind doing us the favor of providing a link to it?
Edit: Never mind. Here it is.
http://www.pearblossomschool.com/description2.html
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by telerionAre the Amish "well socialized"?
The criticism that was laid forth was that homeschooled children are not well socialized. I wrote that a few homeschooled kids do get regular (every day) interaction in a structured learning atmosphere with other (non-sibling) kids. Then you came back with some studies about the scholastic performance of homeschooled children. Besides the fact tha ...[text shortened]... it?
Edit: Never mind. Here it is.
http://www.pearblossomschool.com/description2.html
Is seeing that children are "well socialized" so important a societal function that the coercive power of the State should be employed to accomplish it?
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by pawnhandlerDo you have any research to support the idea that some significant percentage of children who are home schooled are as neglected as you are implying?
This is true for the children of parents who make an effort to educate their children during homeschooling and put forth the same sort of effort a professional teacher does. These parents exist and this works for them. How many children were tested whose parents are into unschooling? How many children were tested who are left to educate themselves bec ...[text shortened]... are doing a good job. That shows the potential of homeschooling, but not everyone's reality.
09 Mar 08
Originally posted by no1marauderI am merely pointing out that the studies whodey mentions have little bearing on the claim shavixmir was making, specifically that homeschool kids may not be well-adjusted. The ability to score highly on a basic academic skills test is hardly an indication of social adjustment. In fact, I see counterexamples everyday among my colleagues.
Are the Amish "well socialized"?
Is seeing that children are "well socialized" so important a societal function that the coercive power of the State should be employed to accomplish it?
On the subject of both social adjustment and academic capability, I spoke with my wife again about the homeschooled applicants and freshmen at our university. She told me that nearly all homeschooled kids get rejected for admission, primarily because of weak transcripts (mostly for a weak course load). Of the handfull that are accepted, usually they do not finish their education here. They typically encounter great difficulty adjusting to life at the university both in and out of the classroom.
My sense is that most of these kids end up down the road at Liberty University or a similar religious college.