10 Mar 08
Originally posted by pawnhandlerYes you're quite right; I've never heard of children who attend a public school being "abused to the point of death or near death".
I did not say a significant percentage or any percentage. I say what is based on my experience of picking up the pieces as well as what is reported in the newspaper after some child has been abused to the point of death or near death and no one outside the family knew because the parents claimed to the school that the child was being homeschooled. It's ...[text shortened]... g or should be unregulated. It can be a good thing in some cases but not as a blanket policy.
IMO, the State vastly underrates the ability of parents to raise their children without coercive meddling from the government. And vastly overrates its ability to insure good and just results by such coercive meddling.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by pawnhandlerThe percentage of kids who make it to high school (maybe dropping out) who are functionally illiterate is so high that someone working in public schools can scarcely criticize anyone else.
I did not say a significant percentage or any percentage. I say what is based on my experience of picking up the pieces as well as what is reported in the newspaper after some child has been abused to the point of death or near death and no one outside the family knew because the parents claimed to the school that the child was being homeschooled. It's ...[text shortened]... g or should be unregulated. It can be a good thing in some cases but not as a blanket policy.
I'm sure you're a fine teacher and don't contribute to such public school failures, but there are many fine homeschool parents as well. At least some of us aspire to keep America the "Land of the Free".
A 'homeschooled' child might be neglected, but so might a preschool child. Compulsory school is not the answer to prevent gross neglect at home anymore than compulsory school for 2 year olds would be an answer to prevent their neglect.
Virtually 100% of the time that a homeschooler is neglected to the point of death it makes national news. This leads to a very skewed perception. Public school kids have so many problems of their own that when comparied side by side with homeschoolers it is hard to say that homeschoolers fair worse.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by no1marauderYup. It also vastly overrates itself in its capacity to educate its constituents
...the State vastly underrates the ability of parents to raise their children without coercive meddling from the government. And vastly overrates its ability to insure good and just results by such coercive meddling.
uniformly; as Whodey rightly observes, the educational system is divided
into 'haves' and 'have nots.' The idea that the government would insist
that a parent force its child to attend a 'have not' school, even if they
had a committed homeschooling program sounds dictorial to me indeed.
One of the facets of my job is that I have to communicate regularly with
educators for a variety of purposes. It astounds me how many of
the educators -- the very educators which might be teaching MY child down
the road -- do not have a firm grasp of simple concepts like apostrophes,
or the different between 'there' and 'their,' or how to use punctuation
beyond a question mark, period, comma and exclamation point. I
do not have a great deal of faith in the educational system generally,
and the idea that I would have to get a license from the government who
certifies these marginally literate teachers is insulting.
If I fail to educate my child, then it's my fault. That government could
somehow monitor that is laughable.
Big brother, indeed.
Nemesio
10 Mar 08
2 edits
Originally posted by NemesioIn terms of have and have nots however, I think it is important to remember one advantage that public/private schools typically have over homeschoolers: more educational resources per child. I'm especially thinking of high school, the point at which I think most homeschoolers should put their kids into public/private school. A single parent, no matter how intelligent, cannot possibly have the same level of education in math as the average HS math teach, and English as the HS English teacher, and history as the HS history teacher, etc. Moreover even if the parent did have equivalent degrees and experience in all those subjects, the parent does not have as much time to develop a single specialized lecture over each subject as an entire faculty at a HS does.
Yup. It also vastly overrates itself in its capacity to educate its constituents
uniformly; as Whodey rightly observes, the educational system is divided
into 'haves' and 'have nots.' The idea that the government would insist
that a parent force its child to attend a 'have not' school, even if they
had a committed homeschooling program sounds dictoria rnment could
somehow monitor that is laughable.
Big brother, indeed.
Nemesio
One might argue that the parent has more devotion to their child than a teacher and so may be able to compensate for the time and education deficits. I agree that this should be considered, but I doubt that it can on net fully compensate.
Another final thought, a lot has been said about the heterogeneity of homeschoolers (e.g., not all parents are bad teachers) as well as the heterogeneity of public school districts. I think we should remember the heterogeneity of the students in those public schools. Many students have a very enriching experience in public school. They make smart choices, learn tremendously, and go on to success afterwards. Ironically, as much as the success of a child in homeschooling depends upon the parent, so does the success of a child in a public, or even private, school.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by NemesioMany educators are very weak in little things like MATH, and ENGLISH, and SCIENCE. It blows me away. The school system seems to prioritize administrative skills instead.
Yup. It also vastly overrates itself in its capacity to educate its constituents
uniformly; as Whodey rightly observes, the educational system is divided
into 'haves' and 'have nots.' The idea that the government would insist
that a parent force its child to attend a 'have not' school, even if they
had a committed homeschooling program sounds dictoria ...[text shortened]... rnment could
somehow monitor that is laughable.
Big brother, indeed.
Nemesio
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by telerion??? high school teachers are teaching at a high school level; how hard could it be? and wouldn't a lecture set created by an institutional team beat a handcrafted set created by the average teacher?
.... A single parent, no matter how intelligent, cannot possibly have the same level of education in math as the average HS math teach, and English as the HS English teacher, and history as the HS history teacher, etc. Moreover even if the parent did have equivalent degrees and experience in all those subjects, the parent does not have as much time to develop a single specialized lecture over each subject as an entire faculty at a HS does.
...
Originally posted by AThousandYoungthe raison d'etre of any government employee is to consume tax funds. efficiency, excellence, etc., therefore are hindrances in this regard.
Many educators are very weak in little things like MATH, and ENGLISH, and SCIENCE. It blows me away. The school system seems to prioritize administrative skills instead.
10 Mar 08
2 edits
Originally posted by pawnhandlerI would say the public school system feels threatened more than the teachers specifically. Like yourself I think there are many teachers out there who only care about helping children rather than focusing on the financial side of things. However, as we all know the business side of things infect our passions in life in regards to helping people. We see what needs to be done to help people in different ways while all the time being constrained by the powers that be that dictate whether or not it is finacially feasible for us to do what we feel needs to be done.
I've had lots of jobs. I would no longer be a classroom teacher if the schools closed. I'd find some other way to help children want to reach their potential. But I have heard homeschool parents claim that teachers feel threatened, which is bogus.
10 Mar 08
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderDo you consider school shootings abuse? If so I am sure you have heard plenty of examples of children dying in the public school system. Whether you are at home or at school there seems to be no 100% safe place to be, no?
Yes you're quite right; I've never heard of children who attend a public school being "abused to the point of death or near death".
IMO, the State vastly underrates the ability of parents to raise their children without coercive meddling from the government. And vastly overrates its ability to insure good and just results by such coercive meddling.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by telerionI have no doubt that given a choice the vast majority of parents will opt to send their child to a traditional school for good and sufficient reasons. All I am saying is that they should be allowed that choice and not coerced into it by threat of jail time.
In terms of have and have nots however, I think it is important to remember one advantage that public/private schools typically have over homeschoolers: more educational resources per child. I'm especially thinking of high school, the point at which I think most homeschoolers should put their kids into public/private school. A single parent, no matter how ...[text shortened]... g depends upon the parent, so does the success of a child in a public, or even private, school.
10 Mar 08
??? high school teachers are teaching at a high school level; how hard could it be?
That's exactly the wrong way to think about educating kids.
and wouldn't a lecture set created by an institutional team beat a handcrafted set created by the average teacher?
Why would you think so?
Moreover, teachers generally do use an institutional curriculum but they augment it with lecture. This augmentation is formed from their experience both as an educator and a person with knowledge in their subject.
10 Mar 08
Originally posted by no1marauderI probably agree with you on that.
I have no doubt that given a choice the vast majority of parents will opt to send their child to a traditional school for good and sufficient reasons. All I am saying is that they should be allowed that choice and not coerced into it by threat of jail time.
