HS girl confronts bullies bullying another kid:

Originally posted by Metal Brain
He will ignore any good points you present and insist that you don't ignore any of his points..

Do you agree with normbenign's suggestion that beating children "at a young age" might prevent them from raping people later in life? I confronted him on this "good point" of his, but he didn't want to debate it.

Originally posted by normbenign
So preventing a rape justifies violence, however is it possible that preventing the rape may be accomplished by corporal punishment early in life?

So rapists don't come from homes where physical violence was used when parents were angry? You reckon the violence used against children early in life tends to prevent them from committing rapes later in life?

Originally posted by FMF
Do you agree with normbenign's suggestion that beating children "at a young age" might prevent them from raping people later in life? I confronted him on this "good point" of his, but he didn't want to debate it.

Beating children at a young age? He didn't use those exact words did he?

How young? 2 year olds don't listen to anybody for the most part. They require a lot of patience at that age. I would not recommend corporal punishment at that young of an age, but most 6 year olds should know better when told no.

I think he was just making the point that some children need firm punishment to curb bad behavior at times. It may be that you are both right in a way.

If you raised the child without corporal punishment and simply made a child stand in the corner when the child misbehaved he might grow up well behaved and respectful, but some children have ADHD or be extremely impulsive and will not listen and their parents. These parents may have their children desensitized to some forms of corporal punishment that are seemingly harsh. These children may need [what you may consider] very harsh corporal punishment to curb their bad behavior. If they don't they may laugh in your face and think they can get away with anything because they usually do.

My kids hated standing in the corner. It was worse than any corporal punishment to them. I simply didn't need to resort to harsh methods many would not approve of, but not all kids are like mine. I have seen some really difficult children that would not stand in any corner without the threat of corporal punishment.

Maybe it is the fault of the parents for desensitizing the kids to certain forms of punishment and creating a monster for teachers. Anything less than physical pain might not be effective anymore, but maybe it is nature more than nurture. It really is a hard call. You should babysit a really difficult kid sometime. You may find yourself resorting to methods you never thought you would.

What if a child kept hitting another child on the head with a toy truck causing pain? If putting the little sociopath in the corner doesn't work, then what? If they are completely desensitized to yelling that won't work either. You could confine him to a room (solitary confinement) , but what if he damages anything in the room he can? You can't build a rubber room everywhere you go. It is not always as easy as you think.

I'm just saying not all children are the same. Whether it is nurture or nature would be a good debate I suppose, but could be both.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Beating children at a young age? He didn't use those exact words did he?

His exact words were "at young ages".

Originally posted by Metal Brain
If you raised the child without corporal punishment and simply made a child stand in the corner when the child misbehaved he might grow up well behaved and respectful...

...but some children have ADHD or be extremely impulsive and will not listen and their parents. These parents may have their children desensitized to some forms of corporal punishment that are seemingly harsh. These children may need [what you may consider] very harsh corporal punishment to curb their bad behavior. If they don't they may laugh in your face and think they can get away with anything because they usually do.

So you reckon children diagnosed as having a psychiatric or development disorder like ADHD should be subjected to "very harsh corporal punishment"?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
You should babysit a really difficult kid sometime. You may find yourself resorting to methods you never thought you would.

You have used physical violence against someone else's child because they were "difficult" when you babysat?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]...but some children have ADHD or be extremely impulsive and will not listen and their parents. These parents may have their children desensitized to some forms of corporal punishment that are seemingly harsh. These children may need [what you may consider] very harsh corporal punishment to curb their bad behavior. If they don't they may laugh in your face an ...[text shortened]... ic or development disorder like ADHD should be subjected to "very harsh corporal punishment"?

or be extremely impulsive and will not listen.

My point was that a child may have been subjected to prolonged corporal punishment from their parent(s) and that may be the only thing that remains effective. Anything else might not be. You can lay blame at the parents but that doesn't change the child.

Would you allow a child to continue to beat another child repeatedly?

Originally posted by FMF
You have used physical violence against someone else's child because they were "difficult" when you babysat?

No.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Would you allow a child to continue to beat another child repeatedly?

Of course not. But how would beating the child instead of restraining it teach it that it should not resort to violence?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
No.

So what is your babysitting anecdote about? What methods did you resort to that you never thought you would never resort to?

Originally posted by FMF
His exact words were "at young ages".

To me 6 years old is young. In a perfect world parents would have unlimited patience, but this is not a perfect world and parents are not perfect. Parents can (and do) desensitize their children to certain forms of punishment and this may make a teacher's job much more difficult when trying to curb unacceptable behavior.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
My point was that a child may have been subjected to prolonged corporal punishment from their parent(s) and that may be the only thing that remains effective. Anything else might not be. You can lay blame at the parents but that doesn't change the child.

You are dodging my question which was a direct response to what you said in your post. Here it is again: Do you reckon children diagnosed as having a psychiatric or development disorder like ADHD should be subjected to "very harsh corporal punishment"? Let's widen it a bit: What about autistic children? Or children with clinical depression? What about mentally disabled children?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
To me 6 years old is young. In a perfect world parents would have unlimited patience, but this is not a perfect world and parents are not perfect. Parents can (and do) desensitize their children to certain forms of punishment and this may make a teacher's job much more difficult when trying to curb unacceptable behavior.

You have sidestepped the question again. Do you agree with normbenign when he suggests that preventing rapes may be accomplished by corporal punishment early in life? He doesn't want to substantiate the assertion. Can you, if you agree with it?

Originally posted by FMF
Of course not. But how would beating the child instead of restraining it teach it that it should not resort to violence?

Beating? Why do you insist on using this term? Did Norm use it or just you?
This is a good example of how you like to alter the debate into terms that you prefer.


If a child is beating another child how would you teach that child not to beat other children if he is desensitized to other methods of punishment? Teaching a child that inflicting pain on others might result in him feeling pain back is not necessarily a bad lesson to learn if other methods don't work. Would you allow the beatings to continue? What about fairness to the child victim?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Beating? Why do you insist on using this term? Did Norm use it or just you?
This is a good example of how you like to alter the debate into terms that you prefer.

I contend that "corporal punishment" is physical violence. So, yes, as far as I am concerned, you have been talking about adults beating children in some of your posts above.