HS girl confronts bullies bullying another kid:

Originally posted by Metal Brain
How do you think these murdering children should be punished? Counseling? 5 years in jail? 10 years? 20? The death penalty? I'm curious how a mind like yours thinks.

So you are advocating corporal punishment in cases where children have murdered other children?

Originally posted by FMF
So you are advocating corporal punishment in cases where children have murdered other children?

I am just curious as to how Barts would punish child murderers. How would you suggest they be punished?

I was suggesting that corporal punishment might prevent violent crimes by children in certain situations. I have been saying that all along.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
You should babysit a really difficult kid sometime. You may find yourself resorting to methods you never thought you would.

* Bump for Metal Brain *

I'll ask this one again as you seem intent on dodging it and yet you raised the point [and it's a verbatim quote, not twisted at all]. What is this no-details babysitting anecdote about? What methods did you resort to that you thought you would never resort to?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
Children have murdered other children. There are documented cases of it. Do you think corporal punishment is why they turned out to be murderers? Do you think it is possible that they got away with too much without being punished enough? Is it nurture or nature?

http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/weird/kids2/index_1.html

How do you t ...[text shortened]... ng? 5 years in jail? 10 years? 20? The death penalty? I'm curious how a mind like yours thinks.

So you're claiming that if only those kids had been beaten more often they wouldn't have murdered ?

Let's take a look at a few of those examples then;
1) This example you're showing is from 1874, odds are pretty good that he had more than one beating in his childhood and yet it didn't prevent any murders. He was even in a "reform school", those things aren't exactly known for being soft on kids. Did he "get away with too much ?"
2) "The product of an unsettled home in which chronic abuse was the norm." Sounds like she got beaten too, but still she murdered.

My point is simple, if a kid is still in any way normal, you do not need to use force except to stop imminent bad or dangerous behaviour. Even then you don't use it as a punishment, but to physically restrain them from an action.

If a kid is so far gone that you can't influence him by any normal rewards or punishments, a beating isn't going to help either. All that's going to teach such a kid is, "don't do it when an adult is watching and make sure other kids won't tell on me."

Originally posted by Metal Brain
If you raised the child without corporal punishment and simply made a child stand in the corner when the child misbehaved he might grow up well behaved and respectful, ...

* Bump for metal Brain *

...but some children have ADHD or be extremely impulsive and will not listen and their parents. These parents may have their children desensitized to some forms of corporal punishment that are seemingly harsh. These children may need [what you may consider] very harsh corporal punishment to curb their bad behavior. If they don't they may laugh in your face and think they can get away with anything because they usually do.

Ok, whatever you say. But forgive me if I ask again, because you brought ADHD up, not me, and you seem determined to talk of it no more. Here: Do you recommend "very harsh" physical violence being used against children with developmental disorders like ADHD?

Which other developmental disorders in children would you propose to handle with physical violence?

Originally posted by FMF
[b]* Bump for Metal Brain *

I'll ask this one again as you seem intent on dodging it and yet you raised the point [and it's a verbatim quote, not twisted at all]. What is this no-details babysitting anecdote about? What methods did you resort to that you thought you would never resort to?[/b]

I never said that I did. I just did not want to waste my time answering baseless accusations. I was simply an observer that saw a sociopath child get punished by another person.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I am just curious as to how Barts would punish child murderers. How would you suggest they be punished?

I was suggesting that corporal punishment might prevent violent crimes by children in certain situations. I have been saying that all along.

We have even stopped giving physical punishment to adult murders. If a kid murdered, you
A) try to rehabilitate them and beatings don't help here.
B) If you can't, you lock them away so they can't hurt others.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I never said that I did. I just did not want to waste my time answering baseless accusations. I was simply an observer that saw a sociopath child get punished by another person.

There are no "baseless accusations". You said this: "You should babysit a really difficult kid sometime. You may find yourself resorting to methods you never thought you would." Why not just explain what you mean? What "methods" are you suggesting I would [may] "resort to", with somebody else's kids, that you think I'd never have thought I would?

Originally posted by Barts
So you're claiming that if only those kids had been beaten more often they wouldn't have murdered ?

Let's take a look at a few of those examples then;
1) This example you're showing is from 1874, odds are pretty good that he had more than one beating in his childhood and yet it didn't prevent any murders. He was even in a "reform school", those things aren ...[text shortened]... do it when an adult is watching and make sure other kids won't tell on me."

I acknowledged that extreme cases of abuse lead to that kind of behavior in a post earlier in this thread. Go look.

Not all forms of corporal punishment lead to that. As I also stated earlier in this thread, I got paddle whacks on my butt when I was in school and I did not turn out violent. Neither did a lot of guys that got whacks back then.

Originally posted by FMF
There are no "baseless accusations". You said this: [b]"You should babysit a really difficult kid sometime. You may find yourself resorting to methods you never thought you would." Why not just explain what you mean? What "methods" are you suggesting I would [may] "resort to", with somebody else's kids, that you think I'd never have thought I would?[/b]

I just did. Can't you read?

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I acknowledged that extreme cases of abuse lead to that kind of behavior in a post earlier in this thread. Go look.

Not all forms of corporal punishment lead to that. As I also stated earlier in this thread, I got paddle whacks on my butt when I was in school and I did not turn out violent. Neither did a lot of guys that got whacks back then.

But your argument is that sometimes physical punishment is necessary, now you're arguing that physical punishment doesn't always screw kids up.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I just did. Can't you read?

No, you didn't. You're stonewalling. You brought up 'babysitting someone's children'. Since which you have refused to explain what you meant. You brought it up, why not just explain what you mean? What "methods" are you suggesting I might "resort to" if I babysat someone else's child/children?

Originally posted by Barts
We have even stopped giving physical punishment to adult murders. If a kid murdered, you
A) try to rehabilitate them and beatings don't help here.
B) If you can't, you lock them away so they can't hurt others.

Not really. Chain gangs are a form of slavery and that is physical punishment.

I didn't suggest you apply corporal punishment after a child murders another. I suggested using it to prevent children beating other children repeatedly and you know that.

Originally posted by Metal Brain
I never said that I did. I just did not want to waste my time answering baseless accusations. I was simply an observer that saw a sociopath child get punished by another person.

Which other developmental disorders in children, apart from ADHD, would you propose to handle with "very harsh" physical violence?

Originally posted by Barts
But your argument is that sometimes physical punishment is necessary, now you're arguing that physical punishment doesn't always screw kids up.

What part of extreme abuse don't you understand? Whacks are not extreme abuse.