Libertarians Hacked By MAGA (2022)

@Mott-The-Hoople said
you mean like a dictator?

No, not like Trump at all.

@Wajoma said
This is exactly what leads to the two party seesaw evident in the US, UK, Aus and NZ. The two main parties put on a little song and dance about being in opposition to each other. They're both part of the same machine. And every election we get the panic, this election is different, this election is important, it's this one that counts, we absolutely have to hold our noses a ...[text shortened]... on is the same as every other on the two party seesaw, voting which whip to bring down on our backs.

Do you still vote, or are you like these idiots who say "they all suck!" and don't vote at all?

Then you have no room to bitch.

@Sleepyguy said
Yeah but either a Dem or Repub will win, so ...

Anyway THIS TIME its different, LOL.

Well probably not, but at least there's a guy in the race that is hated by all the right people. Best case scenario, however unlikely, is that he does some serious damage to the corrupt uniparty blob. If not, he may at least do something about illegal immigration and hopefully get us out of the war business for a few years.

And minorities and other oppressed peoples be damned, eh?

@Suzianne said
And minorities and other oppressed peoples be damned, eh?

OMG you're boring and stupid.

@Sleepyguy said
OMG you're boring and stupid.

Oh, the irony.

@Sleepyguy said
Yeah but either a Dem or Repub will win, so ...

Anyway THIS TIME its different, LOL.

Well probably not, but at least there's a guy in the race that is hated by all the right people. Best case scenario, however unlikely, is that he does some serious damage to the corrupt uniparty blob. If not, he may at least do something about illegal immigration and hopefully get us out of the war business for a few years.

You do know that Libertarians favor actual open borders (not pretending we have one now) and probably wouldn't be too keen on 12 million deportations and restrictions on immigration of those with the "wrong" ideology and/or who "don't like our religion". https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvjpv8/trump-immigration-christian-nationalism

"Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders." Libertarian Party Platform 2022, Section 3.4. https://www.lp.org/platform/

@wildgrass said
He's not a libertarian either.

Trumps spending was insane. Remember we had a strong economy and no wars back then. No COVID. What's he doing accelerating the expansion of the federal government? Not once proposing a plan to pay for all his lavish handouts. Libertarians should not want anything to do with that.

In tandem with that is Trump did not even attempt to reduce the deficit. That is a big gripe with me.

@no1marauder said
You do know that Libertarians favor actual open borders (not pretending we have one now) and probably wouldn't be too keen on 12 million deportations and restrictions on immigration of those with the "wrong" ideology and/or who "don't like our religion". https://www.vice.com/en/article/bvjpv8/trump-immigration-christian-nationalism

"Economic freedom demands the unrestr ...[text shortened]... cross national borders." Libertarian Party Platform 2022, Section 3.4. https://www.lp.org/platform/

Don't confuse them with actual libertarianism. Most who call themselves libertarians in America are just warmed-over conservatives.

@Suzianne said
Don't confuse them with actual libertarianism. Most who call themselves libertarians in America are just warmed-over conservatives.

shut up you stupid kant, you add nothing, you're a waste of space.

@Wajoma said
shut up you stupid kant, you add nothing, you're a waste of space.

Apparently, and possibly due to you being unable to differentiate gender, you keep confusing yourself with me.

@Wajoma said
This is what it's about. There'll never be a libertarian goobermint in our life time, so please stop crying 'waddaboud the roads". What can happen is Libertarian ideals start gaining traction, start gaining support, the two main parties look to where their votes are disappearing to, and the parasite power trippers, clinging to their principles (i.e. be in power, stay in powe ...[text shortened]... inding libertarians that Trump isn't libertarian, the humor that can be had here is why I come back.

Our voting system heavily penalizes voting anything other than Party 1 or Party 2.

We are always forced to vote for the party which is our second worst choice, otherwise we get our worst choice. It makes no sense at all.

We should have a Ranked Choice Voting (RCV) system in where we get to vote for the party we actually want, then our 2nd choice, etc. down to our last choice (i.e. the one we hate second worst.)

Maine, Alaska and Hawaii are now using RCV but it should be used nationwide as quickly as possible.

Most of Europe uses a two-round system where in the first round you vote for who you want, and in the second you vote for your second worst choice. It's a little better but takes longer. RCV allows you to do this in one go.

@wildgrass said
Can you explain why Trump's invited to speak at a libertarian convention?

Answering your question: the Libertarian Party at the national level was taken over in 2022 by alt-right "conservatives" or Republicans.

The core insurgents were a group calling themselves the Mises Caucus (MC), which been around for some time - many didn't like them - but which suddenly expanded into a force and swept into power. They took out a lot of the old guard, including reasonable people like Nick Sarwark, and proceeded to lurch the party strongly right.

I think Trump's Presidency opened a split in the party, never that strong to begin with; but Trump drove the wedge deeper.

Friends started telling me how Trump "wasn't all bad" because he lowered taxes and reduced regulations. Some libertarians are single-issue on taxes - lower them, and they love you. No matter what. But a lot of libertarians also hate the EPA (not me), so they also loved that. MC then got rid of LP's pro-choice plank. It seems obvious 'libertarians' would be pro-personal liberty for women, but it obviously irks the right for other reasons.

I left the party after I saw all this going on. But I'd been dissatisfied for longer than that for other reasons.

@Earl-of-Trumps said
In tandem with that is Trump did not even attempt to reduce the deficit. That is a big gripe with me.

Reduce lol?

By 2018 he doubled it.

@no1marauder said
You do know that Libertarians favor actual open borders

Yes sure, but how do they feel about government censoring free speech, or keeping citizens as political prisoners for years on end? How do they feel about the uniparty war machine keeping us involved in Ukraine, Israel etc? How do they feel about our joke of a justice system? The government blob behind it all hates Trump. Don't you think even a Libertarian purist might want to poke a Trump shaped stick in their eye?

@Sleepyguy said
Yes sure, but how do they feel about government censoring free speech, or keeping citizens as political prisoners for years on end? How do they feel about the uniparty war machine keeping us involved in Ukraine, Israel etc? How do they feel about our joke of a justice system? The government blob behind it all hates Trump. Don't you think even a Libertarian purist might want to poke a Trump shaped stick in their eye?

Big Government was created over more than a century by Congressional Democrats and Republicans taking turns passing bills that slowly but surely built up a vast government edifice at the Federal level. That edifice is now too big to fuel with taxation, and so we now have to fuel it with inflation by expanding the currency every year. Voters don't perceive this problem, and so neither party consistently supports reducing the size of FedGov. We can argue why voters don't see the problem of a constantly inflating currency, but the fact is, they don't.

Ideologically, Libertarians reject both big government AND inflation. So they are out of step with the broader American public.

Some Libertarians have been duped into thinking Trump is 'one of them' because he reduced taxes and got rid of EPA regulations. But reducing taxes without reducing spending increases inflaton. And Trump will not reduce government overall - he will get rid of the parts he finds inconvenient and egalitarian - and strengthen the parts that he can use to remain in power.

Libertarians can fall for the con, like anyone else.