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@Sleepyguy saidYou gave as reasons why Libertarians should support Trump " he may at least do something about illegal immigration and hopefully get us out of the war business for a few years."
Yes sure, but how do they feel about government censoring free speech, or keeping citizens as political prisoners for years on end? How do they feel about the uniparty war machine keeping us involved in Ukraine, Israel etc? How do they feel about our joke of a justice system? The government blob behind it all hates Trump. Don't you think even a Libertarian purist might want to poke a Trump shaped stick in their eye?
I responded to the first; his positions are about as diametrically opposed to Libertarian principles as possible (deporting over 10 million persons as he promises to do sounds like it might require a rather large government operation dontcha think?).
As to the second, the only President who had the political courage to "get us out of the war business" in Afghanistan was Joe Biden. And he paid a severe political price for it.
The Libertarian Party in the US is a right wing party that has hijacked the word "libertarian" from its leftist roots (mostly by spuriously and arbitrarily adding the protection of private property as a "natural right"😉. But no serious member of even that party could possibly support Donald Trump.
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@no1marauder saidWhich was weird, right?
As to the second, the only President who had the political courage to "get us out of the war business" in Afghanistan was Joe Biden. And he paid a severe political price for it.
First off, Trump announces that 'we' are getting out of Afghanistan 'in May, 2021, when I am no longer President.' WTF? So Biden says, 'Um... well, you stupid fukker. Fine. But we can't do it until September - you've left the place in a shambles.'
So every terrorist in the world knows when and where to show up - and they do. And they blow something up. As they do. But overall the withdrawal goes off pretty well.
And then we realize that the whole Afghanistan thing has been a MONEY-MAKING SCAM! Nobody in the country is 'ready for indepedence.' No one has been trained. No one can fight for their freedom. Decades of US personnel have been cycling in and out of Afghanistan, raking in foreign service and hazard bonuses and doing NOTHING to create a stable nation-state.
Which is a Teapot Dome level of scandal, in many ways, but has nothing to do with Biden getting us out of that corrupt mess.
Yet people blame Biden. Unbelievable.
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@spruce112358 saidThey don't have to fall for the con to choose the lesser of the two evils and vote for the least worst guy that might actually win.
Big Government was created over more than a century by Congressional Democrats and Republicans taking turns passing bills that slowly but surely built up a vast government edifice at the Federal level. That edifice is now too big to fuel with taxation, and so we now have to fuel it with inflation by expanding the currency every year. Voters don't perceive this problem, a ...[text shortened]... he parts that he can use to remain in power.
Libertarians can fall for the con, like anyone else.
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@no1marauder saidI meant to explain MY reasons (to Wajoma) for accepting the reality that one of the flawed candidates from the two major parties would win, and included my reasons for choosing Trump from the two.
You gave as reasons why Libertarians should support Trump
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@Sleepyguy saidFair enough.
I meant to explain MY reasons (to Wajoma) for accepting the reality that one of the flawed candidates from the two major parties would win, and included my reasons for choosing Trump from the two.
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@Wajoma saidExcept this one does actually have a guy who is KNOWN to admire Adolf Hitler and at least two contemporary dictators so it’s not quite the same old two ring circus.
This is exactly what leads to the two party seesaw evident in the US, UK, Aus and NZ. The two main parties put on a little song and dance about being in opposition to each other. They're both part of the same machine. And every election we get the panic, this election is different, this election is important, it's this one that counts, we absolutely have to hold our noses a ...[text shortened]... on is the same as every other on the two party seesaw, voting which whip to bring down on our backs.
But I agree with the general observation. In the UK we have Conservatives and Conservative light to choose from
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@Sleepyguy saidYou explained that you were voting for Trump because you don't like the people who don't like trump?
I meant to explain MY reasons (to Wajoma) for accepting the reality that one of the flawed candidates from the two major parties would win, and included my reasons for choosing Trump from the two.
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@wildgrass saidI think there are a lot people who need to be fired or go jail for a lot of shady stuff that's gone in this country the last few years and the only way that can possibly happen (not that its likely) is if Trump gets elected and goes after them. In fact one of the speakers at the LP convention laid out the crimes against Trump nicely. Dave Smith, 2nd to last speaker I think? Give it a watch, and the other speakers too. It was definitely a much tougher crowd than Trump is used to and he was poorly prepared IMO. It made for interesting TV.
You explained that you were voting for Trump because you don't like the people who don't like trump?
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@Sleepyguy saidWatching an LP convention? That's asking a lot on the best of days... 😀
I think there are a lot people who need to be fired or go jail for a lot of shady stuff that's gone in this country the last few years and the only way that can possibly happen (not that its likely) is if Trump gets elected and goes after them. In fact one of the speakers at the LP convention laid out the crimes against Trump nicely. Dave Smith, 2nd to last speaker I think? ...[text shortened]... much tougher crowd than Trump is used to and he was poorly prepared IMO. It made for interesting TV.
'Ungovernable' by the Chair is a good description of it!
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@Sleepyguy saidMight be easier to watch just the clip.
I think there are a lot people who need to be fired or go jail for a lot of shady stuff that's gone in this country the last few years and the only way that can possibly happen (not that its likely) is if Trump gets elected and goes after them. In fact one of the speakers at the LP convention laid out the crimes against Trump nicely. Dave Smith, 2nd to last speaker I think? ...[text shortened]... much tougher crowd than Trump is used to and he was poorly prepared IMO. It made for interesting TV.
Dave Smith (1:45): Libertarians believe that "Donald Trump as President of the United States of America was framed for treason by his own Deep State. And those people belong in jail."
Does he speak for all Libertarians, though?
https://x.com/ComicDaveSmith/status/1794666674597310841
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@Cliff-Mashburn saidFor a lot of us, it was a hostile takeover by non-libertarian "alt-right" types.
@spruce112358
Title of post makes no sense, nobody is hacking anything.
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@spruce112358 saidOr maybe the libertarians are just trying to live up to their claim of being open-minded about things. After all, they invited him, how is that a hostile takeover?
For a lot of us, it was a hostile takeover by non-libertarian "alt-right" types.
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@Cliff-Mashburn saidOpen mindedness was not on display. A bunch of booing whiny babies IMO. Trump was pretty funny in the face of it. He says you should vote for me, only if you wanna win though, or you could just keep getting your 3% of the vote. He wasn't wrong.
Or maybe the libertarians are just trying to live up to their claim of being open-minded about things. After all, they invited him, how is that a hostile takeover?
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@Cliff-Mashburn saidNot talking about him. I'm talking about the Mises Caucus coup in 2022. The leader of that coup - McArdle - invited Trump.
Or maybe the libertarians are just trying to live up to their claim of being open-minded about things. After all, they invited him, how is that a hostile takeover?
Libertarians are open-minded? 😆
I've rarely seen a group with more litmus-tests.