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29 Mar 20
@shavixmir saidJeez.
Actually, there is no lockdown in Sweden, because Sweden has issued guidelines (along those of the Dutch version of a lockdown)
That's a massive over-appreciation of the *@&$-up that is Rutte and Willem-$#&*#$&*-"eenzaamheidsvirus"-*Spit*-Alexander's government's panic reaction.
@whodey saidThree points
But when Sweden does it, removes the lock down on society, not a peep from those that worship the government of Sweden that is now more liberal on being anti-lockdown than Trump.
1. Sweden has a rather unusual demographic in that a very large
proportion live alone. (In fact loneliness is a problem).
2. The Swedes are a pretty law-abiding, socially aware group. They
can probably be trusted to observe social-distancing rules.
3. As has been pointed out they have a pretty robust health system.
Having said all that their approach has received criticism.
Another country not going into lockdown is Holland. They are
pursuing the herd-immunity route ... again not without its critics.
Both countries will have closely looked at the mathematical models,
listened to the experts and planned their response centrally.
@shallow-blue saidA bit of an exaggeration there, don’t you think?
Jeez.
That's a massive over-appreciation of the *@&$-up that is Rutte and Willem-$#&*#$&*-"eenzaamheidsvirus"-*Spit*-Alexander's government's panic reaction.
The Dutch government is actually doing reasonably sensible things; escalating when needed.
Yes, one can ponder the communication skills, but communication is not (and never was) the strongest of Dutch competencies.
The only thing Sweden is actually doing different is not enforcing the suggestions.
@deepthought saidSo what you are saying is that is not wise to make sweeping policy changes that is the same for everyone because not everyone's needs are the same.
I'm a little wary of you overgeneralising my statement. I'm referring to a specific emergency response, not any long term structural policy. That their coronavirus policy is not appropriate for New York State does not entail that their policy of having a nationalised health care system is not. In fact I can imagine that their policy regarding coronavirus might be fine ...[text shortened]... ch State controlling it's own health service.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_Sweden
Right?
@wolfgang59 saidNow put Sweden in the US.
Three points
1. Sweden has a rather unusual demographic in that a very large
proportion live alone. (In fact loneliness is a problem).
2. The Swedes are a pretty law-abiding, socially aware group. They
can probably be trusted to observe social-distancing rules.
3. As has been pointed out they have a pretty robust health system.
Having said all that their a ...[text shortened]... ly looked at the mathematical models,
listened to the experts and planned their response centrally.
Would they not feel compelled to behave like all the other states? Yes they would.
Look at WVU. They have a very low infection rate. Should they be treated the same as the rest of the states?
This is why I advocate states deciding their own medical care issues, much like individual states in Europe without hindrance from the EU.
30 Mar 20
@whodey saidThe "everyone" we are talking about here are nation states or large subdivisions thereof. So I'm somewhat wary of you trying to generalise my point beyond its scope.
So what you are saying is that is not wise to make sweeping policy changes that is the same for everyone because not everyone's needs are the same.
Right?
30 Mar 20
@deepthought saidThe size of the US compared to the size of a small European country is not comparable, yet many advocate the US adopting all kinds of policies from these small nation states.
The "everyone" we are talking about here are nation states or large subdivisions thereof. So I'm somewhat wary of you trying to generalise my point beyond its scope.
@earl-of-trumps saidSweden is handling the corona situation in a very different way and I can't see why we do that. We don't talk about it much, we read about it though. I'm in a risk zone being 75+ and so are my friends and we are being pretty careful as we are told to be, avoid being an unnecessary burden to health care.
@whodey
"Now put Sweden in the US.
Would they not feel compelled to behave like all the other states? Yes they would."
Not sure, Whodey. I don't see the Swedes being influenced by Finland, England, Ireland et al
30 Mar 20
@Torunn This could be based on ignorance but I think the population density is quite a bit lower in Sweden, but I don't know if that applies to cities. Maybe they feel that makes social distancing a more realistic option? Mind you as I write that it makes no sense to me because winter viruses must pass through Swedish cities the same as anywhere else. If it were me I would be really careful, maybe even self isolate for a few weeks until it becomes clearer whether they have got the approach wrong??
30 Mar 20
Sweden already has a higher death rate from the virus than the US and has another 255 patients in serious/critical condition (which is almost 3 times the US rate). The Netherlands is doing far worse with a death rate 5 times higher than the US and a serious/critical condition rate more than 6 times higher. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
There is absolutely no reason the US should even consider doing what these countries have done regarding the virus.
30 Mar 20
@eladar saidMy post didn't say anything about "infection rates".
@no1marauder
Nobody knows the infection rate anywhere. All we have is test positive rates.
We have deaths and those in serious/critical conditions on that website. We also have hospitalizations though that data is a bit harder to find.
Your statement that "All we have is test positive rates" is false.