propostion 73

Originally posted by jammer
I'm pretty sure that you are missing the point on this.

A Proposition is not a Government proposal.

A Proposition is a political proposal "by the people." A group of citizens .. parents or whatever are outraged by events down at the local Abortion Factory are get together and come up with a Petition to change the way things are done.
A Proposition ...[text shortened]... f the ways we address our Government .. that's what makes it "by the people, for the people."

Jammer, that isn't the point I am debating. The argument I am refuting is the irrational argument that Proposition 73 would reduce government interference in civil life. In fact, Proposition 73 would have done the opposite by creating a new role for government in policing parental notification.

That question is not affected by the issue you are raising. Whether it was placed on the ballot by "the people" or by a politician, Proposition 73 still represents an expansion of government's role in private medical decisions. It is insane to argue otherwise. The very essence of the proposition was to impose a legal requirement that does not currently exist.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
No, it's YOU who don't get the point. If people don't act the way they should, then it's government's job to set them straight. Especially in bedrooms. If anyone's behavior does not adhere to 7th century mores, they must be thrown in jail or executed. THAT'S the American Way. Madison? Locke? Jefferson, Washington? Dilletante liberal Jesus-hating communists. Terrorists. Every one of them.

I'm aware of that, but as part of the Islamofascistatheistcommunist conspiracy out to destroy America, I am paid well to write my propaganda to undermine the moral values of our great Christian country.

BTW, can anybody find a website saying whether this proposition passed or not? I've looked through the major cable outlets and all I got is a "too close to call" from MSNBC. Are results on the left coast sent in by carrier pigeon?

Originally posted by Algernon
Jammer, that isn't the point I am debating. The argument I am refuting is the irrational argument that Proposition 73 would reduce government interference in civil life. In fact, Proposition 73 would have done the opposite by creating a new role for government in policing parental notification.

That question is not affected by the issue you are rais ...[text shortened]... very essence of the proposition was to impose a legal requirement that does not currently exist.

You don't understand: the government is interfering with the right of right-wingers to pass laws telling other people what they have to do.

Originally posted by sasquatch672
See, this is how pea-brained ultra-right wingnuts "argue". You just ignore my post, and dismiss the FACTS I raise as propaganda. Every single point I raised has been documented by multiple sources. I cited FACTS, not distortions or opinions, mine or anyone else's. And then you send me to a website that does not address the issue of US distortion ...[text shortened]... you're not equipped to argue with me. You don't have the firepower. You'll lose every time.

"that you failed to note is that the President (more specifically, the Vice President) created the intelligence they wanted and then fed it to Congress and the public." first it's the president that lied; know it's really the vice president. And you think they "created" the same intelligence every other nation's intelligence sources had? Did they create the intelligence of Saddam gassing the Kurds? Maybe that's right wing propaganda you don't think really existed. Or maybe you don't believe the Iraqi weapons program directors who defected to the U.S. with information on the extent of the weapons Saddam was working towards. Just because they have not been found obviously does not mean they never existed. They did exist because he used them. Personally I believe Bush completely screwed up Iraq, but I KNOW his motives for going in were noble and he DID believe wmds were there. He didn't set himself up for monumental failure by telling everyone they were there when he knew otherwise. That is almost as stupid as you. And as screwed up as Iraq is it does not change the fact that millions of people are free of that ruthless dictator and an election was just held. The U.S is doing noble work there and we are not the bad country you profess to everyone on this sight (who do enough America bashing for everyone). YOU JUST CHOOSE TO IGNORE EVERY INVESTIGATION THAT HAS CLEARED THE PRESIDENT OF LIEING OR MISLEADING THE PUBLIC. SINCE YOU CAN'T THINK FOR YOURSELF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND ANYTHING BUT WHAT THE FAR LEFT PROPAGANDA MACHINE SPITS OUT AT YOU. FUTHERMORE, THE COUNTRY IS MUCH SAFER WITHOUT WEASELS LIKE YOU LOWERING THE STANDARDS OF OUR GREAT ARMED FORCES. GO BACK TO YOUR PATETIC LIFE WHICH SEEMS TO BE WRITING POSTS ON AN INTERNET CHESS SIGHT ALL DAY, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO THINK FOR MYSELF.

Originally posted by newdad27
"that you failed to note is that the President (more specifically, the Vice President) created the intelligence they wanted and then fed it to Congress and the public." first it's the president that lied; know it's really the vice president. And you think they "created" the same intelligence every other nation's intelligence sources had? Did the ...[text shortened]... TO BE WRITING POSTS ON AN INTERNET CHESS SIGHT ALL DAY, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO THINK FOR MYSELF.

Well you can't get a more well-reasoned or rational post than this one, so I guess he wins, Sasquatch.

Originally posted by no1marauder
BTW, can anybody find a website saying whether this proposition passed or not? I've looked through the major cable outlets and all I got is a "too close to call" from MSNBC. Are results on the left coast sent in by carrier pigeon?

Proposition 73 was rejected by voters yesterday.

Originally posted by Algernon
Proposition 73 was rejected by voters yesterday.

Link?

Originally posted by newdad27
Proposition 73 will be voted on in California tomorrow which basically states that minors will have to “notify” their parents prior to getting an abortion. . They DO NOT have to get approval, only notify them, but it appears this prop may fail. Why? Why should the state have more rights over a child than the parent? Part of the prop also states that un ...[text shortened]... notify the parents? The problems and insanity never ends for those opposed to this proposition.

I agree. California is a loony bin.

Originally posted by no1marauder
Link?

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/09/ap/politics/mainD8DP35501.shtml

Originally posted by Algernon
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/11/09/ap/politics/mainD8DP35501.shtml

Thanks. It would be nice if our "news" organizations gave an actual vote count rather than something has been defeated (or approved as the case may be) "overwhelmingly" or "narrowly" but it is good to see that there are some states who see through the tricks of the anti-abortion movement.

Originally posted by newdad27
"that you failed to note is that the President (more specifically, the Vice President) created the intelligence they wanted and then fed it to Congress and the public." first it's the president that lied; know it's really the vice president. And you think they "created" the same intelligence every other nation's intelligence sources had? Did the ...[text shortened]... TO BE WRITING POSTS ON AN INTERNET CHESS SIGHT ALL DAY, AND I WILL CONTINUE TO THINK FOR MYSELF.

Got a quick tip for ya newdad -

decaf

Originally posted by no1marauder
A Proposition or any other proposed law that severely restricts fundamental rights is as un-American as it gets. You right-wingers never seem to understand that the very purpose of a Madsonian democracy based on Lockean principles is to have a limited government who's main purpose is to protect the people's natural rights. Try reading Tom Paine instead of listening to Rush Limbaugh and you might figure it out.

So the government putting itself between a parent and their child is what Madsonian democracy is all about. That is what you would have us believe? No, it's about not getting between a parent and their child, less government is better.