09 Nov 05
Originally posted by Algernonabortion stats are already keep on minors that get abotions since it is very likely a crime was committed (since a 12 yr old is pregnant). The failing of this prop allows the government to step in between the parent and child, and the govn. tells the child they don't have to tell their parents. It's not very complicated.
Right. And a new law in which government intervenes in a relationship between certain medical patients and physicians, by enforcing a requirement and keeping track of certain medical procedures, is a law that expands government's role where it currently has none.
09 Nov 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672Ouch! That's gonna leave a mark.
Sure you do.
You want the government to ban gay marriage, sodomy, the teaching of the theory of evolution, to take away the ability of a woman to obtain a safe and legal abortion. And that's just for starters.
You want government to do alot of things. And you hide your racism, anti-Semitism, bigotry, and homophobia in your "faith".
09 Nov 05
Originally posted by sasquatch672I'm sure you are for sodomy. Evolution is being taught and I have NO problem with that. The other things you brought up are your opinions. If put on a ballot via a referendum, most states would vote down the things you mentioned (with the exception of states like CA, NY, NJ..). So the people should make those decisions. I have never said otherwise. You just keep showing your ignorance. Keep it up.
Sure you do.
You want the government to ban gay marriage, sodomy, the teaching of the theory of evolution, to take away the ability of a woman to obtain a safe and legal abortion. And that's just for starters.
You want government to do alot of things. And you hide your racism, anti-Semitism, bigotry, and homophobia in your "faith".
09 Nov 05
Originally posted by newdad27You are a complete idiot. The STATUS QUO is that doctors don't have to inform anybody when someone wants them to perform an abortion. YOU want government to change the STATUS QUO, not me. Women who are of childbearing age already have the right to decide whether they want to procreate or not; that's something you, their parents or the government can't change. Everyone of us already has the right to tell others whatever we want about our personal business; that's not something you, someone's parents or government can change. The only thing a government can do is violate these fundamental rights by going along with right-wingers like you; then the government becomes an illegitimate tyranny. Please read Tom Paine's The Rights of Man esp. Part II.
i dont want the government to do anything. doctors are always required to notify parents before performing surgery on children. Thus, I just want the status quo. You want government to change the status quo and give childrent rights the otherwise do not have; an ability to go behind their parents back and perform major surgery withough telling them. You want government intervention.
09 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by no1marauderyou moron, i said the status quo when a child goes to have an operation is that a parent is notified. That is normal, the exception is an abortion where the government has stepped in to change the normal process. Did you sniff paint as a child?
You are a complete idiot. The STATUS QUO is that doctors don't have to inform anybody when someone wants them to perform an abortion. YOU want government to change the STATUS QUO, not me. Women who are of childbearing age already have the right to decide whether they want to procreate or not; that's something you, their parents or the government can't ...[text shortened]... rnment becomes an illegitimate tyranny. Please read Tom Paine's The Rights of Man esp. Part II.
so you think an 11 year old has the "right" to get an abortion and keep it from her parents? If you think that's a good thing your a radical moron.
09 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by newdad27You are a f***ing retard. Do you know what the term "STATUS QUO" means? Have someone who likes talking to morons explain it to you.
you moron, i said the status quo when a child goes to have an operation is that a parent is notified. That is normal, the exception is an abortion where the government has stepped in to change the normal process. Did you sniff paint as a child?
so you think an 11 year old has the "right" to get an abortion and keep it from her parents? If you think that's a good thing your a radical moron.
You must like screwing 11 and 12 year olds since that's all you keep talking about in reference to this law. In fact, it would apply to every female up to 18 years old. Nature gave women of child bearing age the right to decide whether to have children or not, not me. Go bitch to it, s**thead.
09 Nov 05
1 edit
Now that I'm somewhat calmed down from being insulted by an idiot, let me state my position clearly:
I'd prefer a world where young teenagers didn't get pregnant;
I'd prefer that if they did they could feel they could freely tell their parents and receive loving counsel and guidance;
BUT:
It's none of my business individually or the government's business as a representative as the collective will of the community to force them to.
I also feel that as part of our Natural and Fundamental right to personal self-autonomy over our own bodies, any female of child bearing age as a right to decide whether to procreate or not. Laws stating otherwise won't change the reality that they have this right. Given that this right flows from physical reality, I believe that what they decide to do is up to them, not their parents or the government. I believe if they don't want to tell their parents they won't and that they shouldn't have to in a society based on personal freedom.
So go ahead right-wingers, tell me what a "nut" I am to believe in the logical implications of the Lockean principles that this country was founded on.
09 Nov 05
Originally posted by no1marauderAmen Brother. Well said.
Now that I'm somewhat calmed down from being insulted by an idiot, let me state my position clearly:
I'd prefer a world where young teenagers didn't get pregnant;
I'd prefer that if they did they could feel they could freely tell their parents and receive loving counsel and guidance;
BUT:
It's none of my busin ...[text shortened]... believe in the logical implications of the Lockean principles that this country was founded on.
09 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by newdad27More Alice-In-Wonderland logic: Somehow, NOT passing a new law is changing the status quo. Somehow, creating a law where none exists preserves the status quo. Where's the Mad Hatter and the dormouse?
i dont want the government to do anything. doctors are always required to notify parents before performing surgery on children. Thus, I just want the status quo. You want government to change the status quo and give childrent rights the otherwise do not have; an ability to go behind their parents back and perform major surgery withough telling them. You want government intervention.
EDIT: I just read all the subsequent posts. I wondered what that smoking crater was all about when I logged on...
09 Nov 05
1 edit
Originally posted by newdad27You're right. It's not complicated. The failure of Proposition 73 does not mean that government is stepping in between parents and children. It would have imposed government between underage minors and physicians - and it may have done so for good reasons.
abortion stats are already keep on minors that get abotions since it is very likely a crime was committed (since a 12 yr old is pregnant). The failing of this prop allows the government to step in between the parent and child, and the govn. tells the child they don't have to tell their parents. It's not very complicated.
I don't know if you heard me earlier when I wrote that I think the issue of parental notification is worth examining - what is the proper role of government in facilitating that? That would be an interesting topic. Unfortunately, we can't have that discussion as long as you are in granite-headed denial that Proposition 73 proposes more government involvement in a civil matter.
09 Nov 05
Originally posted by newdad27Yes, but his parents were notified.
you moron, i said the status quo when a child goes to have an operation is that a parent is notified. That is normal, the exception is an abortion where the government has stepped in to change the normal process. Did you sniff paint as a child?
10 Nov 05
Originally posted by no1marauderyou are a nut if you think a 12 yr old can, and should, make that decision on her own.
Now that I'm somewhat calmed down from being insulted by an idiot, let me state my position clearly:
I'd prefer a world where young teenagers didn't get pregnant;
I'd prefer that if they did they could feel they could freely tell their parents and receive loving counsel and guidance;
BUT:
It's none of my busin ...[text shortened]... believe in the logical implications of the Lockean principles that this country was founded on.
p.s. what other rights did "nature" give us?