17 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 saidDo you stop at red lights, Joe?
Note, We try to drill it into Lib minds that the opening up freedom of the govt/president to tell us what the hell to do, will lead to MORE of them telling us what the hell to do. We have said it a lot in the threads, yet they do not respond in any way, shape or form. It is a true danger, and they care not.
The flu is contagious... Next they will mandate flu shots? ...[text shortened]... -sleeve shirts, as the sun causes skin cancer!!!!!! Yes, silly....but, is it??? Brrrrrrrrrrrrr
17 Jan 22
@wajoma saidNew Zealand has had one of the lowest COVID death rates in the world (https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries).
Not sure what your point is here Jim, I'm aware of the NZ situation.
And that has shaped my view on the drama, the thousands of businesses destroyed, lives ruined, families and friends divided, the despair, jobs and careers ended, experienced police, teachers, doctors, healthcare workers jobless the country has lost the hundreds of years of their experience, I've been to th ...[text shortened]... dn't do this to NZ, the state did, and that's why I say to you, to everyone, resist, resist, resist.
The nation's leadership should be congratulated for its measures to limit the spread of this deadly disease. The country's long term economic outlook is good though it was inevitable a deadly pandemic would lead to some temporary contraction there as it did almost everywhere else.
17 Jan 22
@wajoma saidVery well thought out.
That's one way of looking at it, but the distinction needs to be made, a right is not a prohibition. If you have the right to life a corollary of this is that the other fellow has the same right. This is why you may not kill him, it's not a prohibition on killing but the recognition of the other fellows right to life. If you kill him you have violated that right. You have a ...[text shortened]... The reciprocal nature of rights.
An important distinction and appreciate you raising this point.
17 Jan 22
@no1marauder saidMarauder, and I can't believe this hasn't been brought up,.....Why doesn't the government require Flu Vax. It is contagious, and , it kills.
While not a "right", societies impose many rules and regulations restricting movement (i.e. traffic lights) and imposing "conditions" on healthy people in exercising its legitimate power to protect the public health and safety.
IF the majority are displeased with those rules, there are these things called "elections".
17 Jan 22
@no1marauder saidYes, but I wouldn't if a govt employee/thug reached into my car while I am sitting there and try to give me a shot that I do not want to have. He violates me, he is assaulting me and my sovereignty of which you speak.
Do you stop at red lights, Joe?
I would NOT stop for that light.
17 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 saidBut you stop at that light.
Yes, but I wouldn't if a govt employee/thug reached into my car while I am sitting there and try to give me a shot that I do not want to have. He violates me, he is assaulting me and my sovereignty of which you speak.
I would NOT stop for that light.
And you wear a seatbelt.
And you don't smoke in restaurants.
And you pay taxes.
And if you allow the guys at the airport to feel you up.
@averagejoe1 saidA government employee will give you a ticket requiring you to pay a fine or perhaps even be imprisoned if you don't stop at a red light. In other words, they are using coercive measures to require you to restrict your movement - all for the public health and safety.
Yes, but I wouldn't if a govt employee/thug reached into my car while I am sitting there and try to give me a shot that I do not want to have. He violates me, he is assaulting me and my sovereignty of which you speak.
I would NOT stop for that light.
That is different from a vaccine "mandate" which requires you to be vaccinated or tested to keep your job ................................ how exactly?
17 Jan 22
The city just put up a new stop sign in my neighborhood, and it's messing everyone up. It's an intersection that used to be a 2 way stop going North-South but not East-West and now it's a full 4-way stop. It's restricting my freedom of movement.
Anyways, not that its any of your business, but I'm going to ask the Supreme Court to decide this one.
17 Jan 22
@shavixmir saidThis has become a boring spar. Suffice that I do not do something that requires me to let someone get that 'Fist where my Nose begins'.....Which equates to getting a "Needle where my arm begins"
But you stop at that light.
And you wear a seatbelt.
And you don't smoke in restaurants.
And you pay taxes.
And if you allow the guys at the airport to feel you up.
I think that this is a very good response to you, if I do say so myself. I hope that you will reply in kind, adult like. We may be getting somewhere. Libs need to loosen up and see the difference.
I think one of our discussion rifts is that we come from 2 entirely different status-of-existence, if you will. You exist like you are all in this one family. One mob. I am reminded of my analogy, when discussing economy, income etc, that libs think that there is one big pie to be carved up in the USA. The old 'piece of the pie' mantra. AvJoe says there are a LOT of pies. Make your own pie.
So, we are not of One Mob-Family concept. I hate it for libs, as it makes it harder for them to mine our stuff. But if you will step out of the mob for a while and be your own man, you will see how we think as individuals. You will say, Yeah, Joe, you are independent of all this govt control.
Cool, I think.
17 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 saidI expect that in the not so distant future, humanity will have the technology to simply disperse the vaccines into the atmosphere. And I am sure that the courts will be busy trying to sort out the ethics to that nature of a solution.
All of us say that liberty or freedom or sovereignty or whatever is separated by the space just next to where my nose begins. No one is attacking me when I clip a seat belt, etc. The government drone with the needle is definitely attacking me. Why, it hurts!!!
But I would love to be around when the anti-maskers suddenly start wearing masks en-masse. 😆😆
17 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 saidHow is your battle against abortion coming along ? 😛
This has become a boring spar. Suffice that I do not do something that requires me to let someone get that 'Fist where my Nose begins'.....Which equates to getting a "Needle where my arm begins"
I think that this is a very good response to you, if I do say so myself. I hope that you will reply in kind, adult like. We may be getting somewhere. Libs need to loos ...[text shortened]... ividuals. You will say, Yeah, Joe, you are independent of all this govt control.
Cool, I think.
17 Jan 22
1 edit
@averagejoe1 saidLMAO! "Attacking you"? What comical hyperbole.
All of us say that liberty or freedom or sovereignty or whatever is separated by the space just next to where my nose begins. No one is attacking me when I clip a seat belt, etc. The government drone with the needle is definitely attacking me. Why, it hurts!!!
The "mandate" wouldn't even have required anyone to get a vaccine.
17 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 said
This has become a boring spar. Suffice that I do not do something that requires me to let someone get that 'Fist where my Nose begins'.....Which equates to getting a "Needle where my arm begins"
I think that this is a very good response to you, if I do say so myself. I hope that you will reply in kind, adult like. We may be getting somewhere. Libs need to loos ...[text shortened]... ividuals. You will say, Yeah, Joe, you are independent of all this govt control.
Cool, I think.
Make your own pie.
Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos stole all the ingredients.
17 Jan 22
@averagejoe1 saidDid the Framers have that "one mob" attitude?
This has become a boring spar. Suffice that I do not do something that requires me to let someone get that 'Fist where my Nose begins'.....Which equates to getting a "Needle where my arm begins"
I think that this is a very good response to you, if I do say so myself. I hope that you will reply in kind, adult like. We may be getting somewhere. Libs need to loos ...[text shortened]... ividuals. You will say, Yeah, Joe, you are independent of all this govt control.
Cool, I think.
""We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."
Of course, an individual can think whatever they want, but when they start endangering the health and/or safety of others, society has a legitimate power to restrain them.