27 Mar 05
2 edits
Originally posted by kirksey957
Ivanhoe, I have worked with many families in these situations. When patients are what we call "actively dying" as this woman is, they may be making noises that are symptomatic of being close to death. It doesn't mean that they are s ...[text shortened]... ex. Sometimes morphine has the side effect of helping the family.
Kirk: "Sometimes morphine has the side effect of helping the family"
In fact you are saying that giving morfine helps to present a picture to the family, and in this case to the world, of a patient dying in a "peaceful" way.
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeExactly as I said they should: A lethal injection.
This is a remarkable action considering the claim of many, also on this debates forum (Bbarr, Nemesio, No1) that Terri has lost the capacity to suffer. They used this "fact" to justify Terri's killing.
If indeed Terri lost the capacity to suffer why give her morfine ?
If the woman doesn't want to live, why let her suffer?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by shavixmirA purely information-seeking, non-confrontational question, shav: Does Holland offer legal physician-assisted suicide? What about Denmark, Norway, Finland etc.?
Exactly as I said they should: A lethal injection.
If the woman doesn't want to live, why let her suffer?
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeLet me clarify. The use of morphine or any other symptom management drug alleviates symptoms such as pain, restlessness, or shortness of breath. When the patient is relaxed and comfortable, this is reassuring to the family. That is what I meant by "the side effect of helping the family."
Kirk: "Sometimes morphine has the side effect of helping the family"
In fact you are saying that giving morfine helps to present a picture to the family, and in this case to the world, of a patient dying in a "peaceful" way.
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by kirksey957
Let me clarify. The use of morphine or any other symptom management drug alleviates symptoms such as pain, restlessness, or shortness of breath. When the patient is relaxed and comfortable, this is reassuring to the family. That is what I meant by "the side effect of helping the family."
I knew what you meant.
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by Delmer
Thanks, Shav. It's not exactly available on demand then from every family doctor.
No, you can order your suicide pills on an internetsite now. No serious doctor asks any difficult questions at all ..... the internet doctor simply sends you the pills ..... and off you go.
27 Mar 05
Originally posted by shavixmirI'm sure there is a mulitude of chemicals in the house that will work.
What complete bollocks.
Man, that's not even assisted suicide.
You can, alternatively, jump from the roof of a 20 story flat. Or, if you're really creative, slit your wrists (both vertically and horizontally, otherwise it won't work) and sit in a hot bath.
Nyxie
27 Mar 05
What's wrong with death in this world? And why use all the medical mambo jambo for years and years when the result is zero point zero? Without all this, she would have been dead already for years and nobody, accept her friends and relatives, would ever have heard about this human beïng.
Even the will and the possablities to help is limited. Not accepting this, is challenging Gods' wisdom more than you will ever know! In fact you have no knowledge about God or life whatsoever.
27 Mar 05
2 edits
Originally posted by shavixmir
Yes.
Two doctors and a shrink have to approve it though.
Op dit moment voert het Openbaar Ministerie een rechtszaak tegen een van de suïcidecounselors (van Stichting "De Einder". IvanH). Dat gebeurt op grond van art. 294 van het Wetboek van Strafrecht. Dat artikel luidt aldus:
"Hij die opzettelijk een ander tot zelfmoord aanzet, hem daarbij behulpzaam is of hem de middelen daartoe verschaft wordt, indien de zelfmoord volgt, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste drie jaren".
28 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoeNow, that's plain rude. ðŸ˜
Op dit moment voert het Openbaar Ministerie een rechtszaak tegen een van de suïcidecounselors (van Stichting "De Einder". IvanH). Dat gebeurt op grond van art. 294 van het Wetboek van Strafrecht. Dat artikel luidt aldus:
"Hij die opzettelijk een ander tot zelfmoord aanzet, hem daarbij behulpzaam is of hem de middelen daartoe verschaft wordt, indien de zelfmoord volgt, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste drie jaren".
Dutch people have excellent english skills. It is the height of ignorance to post mid thread in a language that the majority of readers don't understand. If it is something you just want to say to 1 user, then PM him/her. If its a thread targetted exlusively at dutch speakers, then begin the thread in dutch. Very disappointed Ivanhoe, but I've noticed its a tactic u emply a lot lately.
As for the discussion on why morphine has been dispensed... 1 word: litigation.
D
28 Mar 05
Originally posted by ivanhoequote:
Op dit moment voert het Openbaar Ministerie een rechtszaak tegen een van de suïcidecounselors (van Stichting "De Einder". IvanH). Dat gebeurt op grond van art. 294 van het Wetboek van Strafrecht. Dat artikel luidt aldus:
"Hij die opzettelijk een ander tot zelfmoord aanzet, hem daarbij behulpzaam is of hem de middelen daartoe verschaft wordt, indien de zelfmoord volgt, gestraft met gevangenisstraf van ten hoogste drie jaren".
At this moment the Public Prosecution Service conducts a lawsuit against of the "suïcide counselors" (of foundation "The Einders". IvanH). That happens on the basis of art. 294 of the statute book of criminal law. That Article says: "he that incites another one to suicide deliberately, or is thereby helpful or providing the resources to this end, if the suicide follows, will be punished with prison sentence of highly three years".
----------------------
Only three years?
Ridiculous, to say the least.
28 Mar 05
2 edits
Originally posted by RagnorakIt is rather difficult to translate. It is a part of the Dutch law that states assisted suicide is forbidden. Furthermore it refers to a doctor being prosecuted at the moment in the Netherlands for delivering pills to commit suicide through the internet.
Now, that's plain rude. ðŸ˜
Dutch people have excellent english skills. It is the height of ignorance to post mid thread in a language that the majority of readers don't understand. If it is something you just want to say to 1 user, ...[text shortened]... n on why morphine has been dispensed... 1 word: litigation.
D
I apologise if this came across as being rude. I am still searching for a site that gives Dutch news in English.
EDIT: As far as I can see there is nothing about this case on this site:
Dutch news in English.
http://www.nisnews.nl/