Originally posted by LittleBear
quote:
At this moment the Public Prosecution Service conducts a lawsuit against of the "suïcide counselors" (of foundation "The Einders". IvanH). That happens on the basis of art. 294 of the statute book of criminal law. That Article says: "he that incites another one to suicide deliberately, or is thereby helpful or providing the resources to thi ...[text shortened]... ree years".
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Only three years?
Ridiculous, to say the least.
Thanks LittleBear.
Originally posted by ivanhoeYeah. Dutch law also states that marijuana is illegal...
It is rather difficult to translate. It is a part of the Dutch law that states assisted suicide is forbidden. Furthermore it states that a doctor is being prosecuted at the moment in the Netherlands for delivering pills to commit suicide through the internet.
I apologise if this came across as being rude. I am still searching for a site that gives Dutch news in English.
Party on.
Originally posted by RagnorakPlug derr planell plap, plog ferr plipetter.
Now, that's plain rude. ðŸ˜
Dutch people have excellent english skills. It is the height of ignorance to post mid thread in a language that the majority of readers don't understand. If it is something you just want to say to 1 user, then PM him/her. If its a thread targetted exlusively at dutch speakers, then begin the thread in dutch. Very disappo ...[text shortened]... ately.
As for the discussion on why morphine has been dispensed... 1 word: litigation.
D
Kegeee plow - planell plop.
Originally posted by Ragnorak
Now, that's plain rude. ðŸ˜
Dutch people have excellent english skills. It is the height of ignorance to post mid thread in a language that the majority of readers don't understand. If it is something you just want to say to 1 user, then PM him/her. If its a thread targetted exlusively at dutch speakers, then begin the thread in dutch. Very disappo ...[text shortened]... ately.
As for the discussion on why morphine has been dispensed... 1 word: litigation.
D
Ragnorak: "As for the discussion on why morphine has been dispensed... 1 word: litigation."
Can you elaborate on this please.
Originally posted by ivanhoeWell, if after Schiavo's death, the hospital can categorically rule out any lawsuits that come their way due to her feeling pain, then its better to rule out that possilbilty now, rather than after the event. Somebody could sue the hospital and say that Schiavo felt unnecessary pain in the hospitals care, and possibly was treated like a second class citizen and didn't receive the normal pain relieve as a "normal" terminal person. Now, the hospital can state "She was treated like any other terminal patient, and procedures were followed to the letter"
Ragnorak: "As for the discussion on why morphine has been dispensed... 1 word: litigation."
Can you elaborate on this please.
Its a pity that Western Medicine doesn't act so proactively in the fight against cancer, where the majority of resources should go into prevention rather than cure.
D
Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.
I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.
I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.
I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.
Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.
What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.
If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.
Translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.
Hippocratic Oath -- Modern Version
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, avoiding those twin traps of overtreatment and therapeutic nihilism.
I will remember that there is art to medicine as well as science, and that warmth, sympathy, and understanding may outweigh the surgeon's knife or the chemist's drug.
I will not be ashamed to say "I know not," nor will I fail to call in my colleagues when the skills of another are needed for a patient's recovery.
I will respect the privacy of my patients, for their problems are not disclosed to me that the world may know. Most especially must I tread with care in matters of life and death. If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; this awesome responsibility must be faced with great humbleness and awareness of my own frailty. Above all, I must not play at God.
I will remember that I do not treat a fever chart, a cancerous growth, but a sick human being, whose illness may affect the person's family and economic stability. My responsibility includes these related problems, if I am to care adequately for the sick.
I will prevent disease whenever I can, for prevention is preferable to cure.
I will remember that I remain a member of society, with special obligations to all my fellow human beings, those sound of mind and body as well as the infirm.
If I do not violate this oath, may I enjoy life and art, respected while I live and remembered with affection thereafter. May I always act so as to preserve the finest traditions of my calling and may I long experience the joy of healing those who seek my help.
Written in 1964 by Louis Lasagna, Academic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.
Originally posted by Ragnorak
Well, if after Schiavo's death, the hospital can categorically rule out any lawsuits that come their way due to her feeling pain, then its better to rule out that possilbilty now, rather than after the event. Somebody could sue the hospital and say that Schiavo felt unnecessary pain in the hospitals care, and possibly was treated like a second class citiz ...[text shortened]... against cancer, where the majority of resources should go into prevention rather than cure.
D
That could be a reason .... but they could simply refer to the "official medical records" stating Terri had lost the ability to suffer, she can (could) not feel any pain, according to the "official" experts and the courts. It was one of the official reasons to kill her, so I am inclined to think that it would also be sufficient evidence to dismiss any judicial claims stating she needed to receive pain-killers. You either claim she can feel pain or you claim she cannot. You either claim she has lost the ability to suffer or you claim she hasn't. It is ridiculous to change one's stance on this the way one sees fit to cover one's own interests.
Originally posted by ivanhoeIf everything in life was that simple and clear cut lawyers wouldn't have jobs Ivanhoe. 🙂
That could be a reason .... but they could simply refer to the "official medical records" stating Terri had lost the ability to suffer, she can (could) not feel any pain, according to the "official" experts and the courts. It was one of the official reasons to kill her, so I am inclined to think that it would also be sufficient evidence to dismiss any ...[text shortened]... idiculous to change one's stance on this the way one sees fit to cover one's own interests.
I'd say Ragnorak is right. This is all about future litigation. Which you KNOW is coming from some group. Probably several groups. All of this is far from over. And that's a shame. The political grandstanding and media feeding frenzy around all of this needs to end.
Originally posted by LittleBearThis Classical Version of the Hippocratic Oath dismisses all these ridiculous claims by many liberals that people who oppose abortion and euthanasia are "Christian zealots", "intolerant religious bigots" and whatever insults they unjustly and conveniently use to label and disqualify their opponents.
Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version
I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:
To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with ...[text shortened]... Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.
"I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art."
Originally posted by LittleBearFrom the Modern Version:
Hippocratic Oath -- Modern Version
I swear to fulfill, to the best of my ability and judgment, this covenant:
I will respect the hard-won scientific gains of those physicians in whose steps I walk, and gladly share such knowledge as is mine with those who are to follow.
I will apply, for the benefit of the sick, all measures which are required, ...[text shortened]... ic Dean of the School of Medicine at Tufts University, and used in many medical schools today.
"If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; ...... "
This Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath is, in my opinion, one of the markers which clearly shows us the birth of a New Ideology, a new "Culture of Death" in our time.
Originally posted by ivanhoeSorry, I don't believe 21st century law should be based on the beliefs people had over 2000 years ago. The portion of the Hippocratic Oath is discussed in Roe v. Wade and is based on the Stoic belief that a soul was present in the embyro from conception. This particular religious belief should be no more binding on people who don't believe it than whether working on a Sabbath is a sin or not.
This Classical Version of the Hippocratic Oath dismisses all these ridiculous claims by many liberals that people who oppose abortion and euthanasia are "Christian zealots", "intolerant religious bigots" and whatever insults they unjust ...[text shortened]... medy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art."
Originally posted by ivanhoe🙄😴
From the Modern Version:
"If it is given me to save a life, all thanks. But it may also be within my power to take a life; ...... "
This Modern Version of the Hippocratic Oath is, in my opinion, one of the markers which clearly shows us the birth of a New Ideology, a new "Culture of Death" in our time.