08 Aug 06
Originally posted by knightmeister"So you 'deciding' to do something takes precedent over whether you feel you have the right to or not. Just YOU deciding makes it right? Or are you not at all bothered whether you are in the right or wrong ?
So you 'deciding' to do something takes precedent over whether you feel you have the right to or not. Just YOU deciding makes it right? Or are you not at all bothered whether you are in the right or wrong ?
Ever wondered why America is hated so much? Once China becomes stronger than you we'll soon see you appealling to a more rigorous morality tha ...[text shortened]... e to a higher morality. This is the TRUE meaning of taking resposibility for your actions.
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It's probably quite obvious to most, but here goes .. When one "decides" to do something it's because they think it's the "right" thing to do .. so YES .. me deciding makes it right.
I decide what's right for me and you decide what's right for you .. then we both live with the results of our decisions.
I'm not bothered by the chance I might be wrong .. i'm human, so I will be wrong sometimes.
Either Davy Crockett or Daniel Boone said it ... "Make sure you're right. Then go ahead and do it."
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"Ever wondered why America is hated so much?"
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I figure it goes with the territory.
Ever wonder why the mice hates cats?
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"It easy to talk like this when you are top of the pile. There are countless millions out there who don't have the ability to just 'take' when they feel like it. There also millions of us who would chose not to take even if we wanted to because we hold ourselves accountable to a higher morality. This is the TRUE meaning of taking resposibility for your actions"
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Moral highground huh?
Did I say I think it's right to take when I feel like it? .. or was it you who said they were going to come take my house?
I said I will defend what is mine and I will.
Now tell me exactly what this "higher morality" is that you hold yourself to.
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerI feel I have to return to this post of yours in order to answer your more recent post. Do you understand how unbelievably arrogant this sounds or are you very bad at representing yourself?
I don't feel I have any right to displace you from your home .. but if I decided to do so, I would.
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerBecause they eat them mercilessly or toy with them?
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"Ever wondered why America is hated so much?"
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I figure it goes with the territory.
Ever wonder why the mice hates cats?
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08 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerI'm curious . What happens then (as is often the case) when our rights clash? Do you decide what is right for me because you have the bigger gun? This is school playground mentality. However the school bully always knows at the back of his mind that there is someone bigger and stronger around the next corner.
It's probably quite obvious to most, but here goes .. When one "decides" to do something it's because they think it's the "right" thing to do .. so YES .. me deciding makes it right.
I decide what's right for me and you decide what's right for you .. then we both live with the results of our decisions.
I'm not bothered by the chance I might be wrong .. i'm hum ...[text shortened]... rockett or Daniel Boone said it ... "Make sure you're right. Then go ahead and do it."
Have you considered the long term draw backs of this philosophy. You may bash someone in the short term , but in the long term you create a "might is right" culture where no-one is safe. What goes around comes around. You sound very much like an American much more likely to empathise with the likes of Gene Hackman in Crimson Tide. He only knew that what he decided was right based on having the biggest gun (or balls) . You remember the scene? ..
Gene: "God help you if your're wrong"
Denzel Washington:" If I'm wrong then we're at war , God help us all"
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerAnd you talk about taking responsibility for our decisions? You have evaded responsibility for your own part in shaping the world by passively accepting "that's just the way things are". Bullxxxt! All the evidence is that we participate in shaping the world and our ideals become reality by wanting them badly enough. How does a fatalist like you get on living in the land of dreams where ideals are turned into reality? Remember Martin Luther King - he had a dream. Silly idealist!
The "World I want" (ideal) is meaningless in the face of the World as it is (real).
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterI might be .. because you sure aren't 'getting me'.
I feel I have to return to this post of yours in order to answer your more recent post. Do you understand how unbelievably arrogant this sounds or are you very bad at representing yourself?
I said "I don't feel I have any right to displace you from your home .. but if I decided to do so, I would."
You think that is "unbelievably arrogant", I thought I was just answering your question. I said what I meant and I do what I decide.
Do YOU understand just how unbelievably ignorant and naive you sound or are you very bad at representing yourself?
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by knightmeister"I'm curious . What happens then (as is often the case) when our rights clash? Do you decide what is right for me because you have the bigger gun?"
I'm curious . What happens then (as is often the case) when our rights clash? Do you decide what is right for me because you have the bigger gun? This is school playground mentality. However the school bully always knows at the back of his mind that there is someone bigger and stronger around the next corner.
Have you considered the long term draw ...[text shortened]... our're wrong"
Denzel Washington:" If I'm wrong then we're at war , God help us all"
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Yes.
That's what I was trying to tell you happens in the real World.
In your ideal World what you deem "right" would matter to someone other than you. In the real World few care what you think is "right" .. ever when you ARE right.
If BS decided who's right .. France would rule the World.
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"Have you considered the long term draw backs of this philosophy. You may bash someone in the short term , but in the long term you create a "might is right" culture where no-one is safe.
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That culture was created long before I came along. I simply accept it as fact. If you want "rights" you'll have to fight for them sooner or later, and ... NO ONE IS SAFE in this World. Safe is where you go when you sleep .. in your dreams.
I intend for me and my family to survive. If that requires me stepping all over your "rights" I have no problem doing so.
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"You sound very much like an American much more likely to empathise with the likes of Gene Hackman in Crimson Tide. He only knew that what he decided was right based on having the biggest gun (or balls) . You remember the scene? ..
Gene: "God help you if your're wrong"
Denzel Washington:" If I'm wrong then we're at war , God help us all."
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This may come as a real shock to you, but I don't make to many decisions based on Hollywood movies.
I prefer the real World.
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by chancremechanicOnce again what started off as a good debate between us has gone into your silliness and obsessive anti-Islamic viewpoint?
ROFLMAO!!!!!....I guess Zarqawi just luuuved the 'people of the book' while sawing their heads off with a Ginsu-knife, except it was dull! Once again, your answer is lame....throw me some chum...try to set the hook!
If you want to use that example, tell me how do you feel about the unnecessary killing of 1000s of Afghan people by indiscrimate US bombing over the last 4 years?
How about the fact that more Iraqis have been killed by US actions in the last few years in Iraq then even under that sh+t head dictator Hussian?
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterOk... well who thinks the English and Americans have made a pig's ear of the whole Middle East, and caused much death and misery by giving in to the Zionist faction and creating the State of Israel in the first place?
How do we decide who lives where? In regards to the Middle East it seems as if racial and religious/historical feuding has taken the place of birthright and humanism.
1) Who on this forum thinks that the Jews claim to the Holy Land is legitmate based on 2000 years of historical/racial ties and 'special religious significance' ?
2) Who on this fo ...[text shortened]... ed and racism and has parallels with Nazi Germany amongst others.
Hmmm - tricky isn't it?
(Aye?... Nay?...)
Who thinks the Holy Lands are sacred to the three monotheistic religions, and therefore would be better off under international control than being fought over endlessly?
Anyone, and I mean anyone tired of war, bloodshed, wasted life and misery? No? ok... carry on. Blood on your hands, democratic citizens of the U.K.. Blood on your hands, registered voters in the U.S..
Blood on the hands of the E.U. unless we take action.
Blood on all our hands as long as we let this go on, and sit idly by. Don't be silent, if you see this as unacceptable. React.
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerI am probably naive in thinking that there are loads of people out there who respect human rights. I probably project my values out there and imagine there are many like me who do not believe "might is right" . However , are you not doing the same in a different way ? Do you imagine every one is like you? You sound fearful of the world and paranoid about those ready to give you a big bashing with their guns , and to a certain extent you are justified but in the end it tells me more about what's going on inside you than it does about the real world.
"I'm curious . What happens then (as is often the case) when our rights clash? Do you decide what is right for me because you have the bigger gun?"
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Yes.
That's what I was trying to tell you happens in the real World.
In your ideal World what you deem "right" would matter to someone other ...[text shortened]... to many decisions based on Hollywood movies.
I prefer the real World.
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by knightmeisterYour posts tell me a lot about what's going on inside your head too.
I am probably naive in thinking that there are loads of people out there who respect human rights. I probably project my values out there and imagine there are many like me who do not believe "might is right" . However , are you not doing the same in a different way ? Do you imagine every one is like you? You sound fearful of the world and paranoid a ...[text shortened]... the end it tells me more about what's going on inside you than it does about the real world.
You don't get it IMO and you're the one that's "fearful of the world."
You're a nice peace loving person.
You don't understand why everybody isn't.
You think it's possible through talking to eliminate War.
It's possible for us all to just get along fine.
I'm a nice person too .. I only kill if I have to.
I understand that there are people in the World who will hate me for no good reason at all. I accept the World as it is and deal with it on those terms.
I think there will always be Wars .. I don't like it .. but that's the way I see it.
It's not possible for everyone to get along all the time and you can't save them all,
It's a bitch .. you can whine and cry about how it should be .. or you can deal with it like it is.
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerAnyone who doesn't accept the state of the world today is a whining liberal for you?
Your posts tell me a lot about what's going on inside your head too.
You don't get it IMO and you're the one that's "fearful of the world."
You're a nice peace loving person.
You don't understand why everybody isn't.
You think it's possible through talking to eliminate War.
It's possible for us all to just get along fine.
I'm a nice person too .. ...[text shortened]... can whine and cry about how it should be .. or you can deal with it like it is.
Would you think your country is doing a satisfactory job in its international relations?
08 Aug 06
Originally posted by sjeg..............................................................................................
Anyone who doesn't accept the state of the world today is a whining liberal for you?
Would you think your country is doing a satisfactory job in its international relations?
"Anyone who doesn't accept the state of the world today is a whining liberal for you?"
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Never used the word "liberal" at all did I?
Never said "accept the STATE of the World as it is." either .. did I?
I sais "ACCEPT the World as it is." .. as in .. RECOGNIZE it for what it is and deal with it on those terms.
Please don't misrepresent what I say.
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Would you think your country is doing a satisfactory job in its international relations?
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I'd call it acceptable.
What people in other Countries think of the USA means very little to me. It's important .. but not paramount in the big picture.
I'm aware that much of the World doesn't like what we're doing and although perplexed I feel it necessary to confront evil whether anyone agrees or not.
09 Aug 06
Originally posted by jammerI think this all comes down to your view of human nature and how optimistic you are about life. I think barriers of hate can be broken down but that does not mean I don't see the bigotry that's out there. I happen to believe that there is a large silent majority of us out there that are ammenable to reason , it's just the loud guys drown them out. There are times when we need to back up our rights with force if neccessary but there are many ways of doing this and we need to have a moral grounding for it rather than just saying my gun is bigger than your gun. The way the US conducts itself in the world is to first rattle it's sabre and then to proclaim some moral high ground based on it's big gun. The problem with this is that it needs to find a moral base first and then back it up with a big gun not the other way round. Showing more even handedness in the middle east would be a start.
Your posts tell me a lot about what's going on inside your head too.
You don't get it IMO and you're the one that's "fearful of the world."
You're a nice peace loving person.
You don't understand why everybody isn't.
You think it's possible through talking to eliminate War.
It's possible for us all to just get along fine.
I'm a nice person too .. ...[text shortened]... can whine and cry about how it should be .. or you can deal with it like it is.
I agree , there will always be Wars as long as there are many people such as yourself who think that there will always be Wars then there will be. It's a self fulfilling prophecy. There's too many fatalists around.
09 Aug 06
"I happen to believe that there is a large silent majority of us out there that are ammenable to reason , it's just the loud guys drown them out."
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That's the reality of life .. the few "loud guys" we have to deal with .. or cave in to.
Or .. pretend that we can "reason" with them.
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"There are times when we need to back up our rights with force if neccessary but there are many ways of doing this and we need to have a moral grounding for it rather than just saying my gun is bigger than your gun."
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Agreed.
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"The way the US conducts itself in the world is to first rattle it's sabre and then to proclaim some moral high ground based on it's big gun."
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Not really, but if you believe it, that's the important thing.
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"The problem with this is that it needs to find a moral base first and then back it up with a big gun not the other way round. Showing more even handedness in the middle east would be a start."
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America doesn't need to "find" it's morals base .. we never lost it.
Americas moral base is Judeo-Christian.
Iran, Hamas, and Hezbollahs morals are based on extreem, fundamental Islam.
Western Europes moral base is a little harder to find.
It's Godless with man as the final arbiter. God's been evicted from W. Europe IMO .. the central theme of "Euroism" seems to be .. point fingers and avoid taking any personal responsibilty.
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"I agree , there will always be Wars as long as there are many people such as yourself who think that there will always be Wars then there will be. It's a self fulfilling prophecy."
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Read that again for yourself and tell me .. was that a self-fulfilling sentance or what?
Circumlocution at it's best .. a perfect example.
The idea that "War is over .. if you want it?" as I remember it, came from John Lennon back in the early 70's .. we're still waiting .. and "imagining" what that fantasy might produce other than another drug induced coma."
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There's too many fatalists around.
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Not to mention .. the idealists, who avoid reality like the plague