Debates
07 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidMaybe it is because I have actually read the whole Quaran , something the majority of practicing Muslims have never done . I have also read the whole Christian bible and the whole Book of Mormon , something members of these religions rarely do .
What makes you more knowledgeable about the Quran than the vast majority of practicing Muslims?
28 Oct 23
@caissad4 saidSure, maybe you know more about the Quran than the people who actually believe it is the word of God including scholars who have spent their lives studying it.
Maybe it is because I have actually read the whole Quaran , something the majority of practicing Muslims have never done . I have also read the whole Christian bible and the whole Book of Mormon , something members of these religions rarely do .
But more likely probably not.
28 Oct 23
@Mott-The-Hoople
The problem is the tunnel system defeated the US before, remember that little police action in Viet Nam, they had miles of tunnels to and they worked well and there will be a similar problem for the Israeli's. I wonder if the Israeli's can use ground penetrating radar to suss out where the tunnels are, if so they could just bomb them from above and plug them up one by one.
Don't know much about Israeli military though, lived there for years but worked as contractor at Intel in Jerusalem and hung out with the folk music crowd so I didn't do much military stuff....
28 Oct 23
@sonhouse saidYes. Israel has the weapons to completely flatten Gaza and any tunnels they have there.
@Mott-The-Hoople
The problem is the tunnel system defeated the US before, remember that little police action in Viet Nam, they had miles of tunnels to and they worked well and there will be a similar problem for the Israeli's. I wonder if the Israeli's can use ground penetrating radar to suss out where the tunnels are, if so they could just bomb them from above and plug the ...[text shortened]... at Intel in Jerusalem and hung out with the folk music crowd so I didn't do much military stuff....
You can’t compare Gaza to Vietnam though.
28 Oct 23
@wajoma saidThere is no justification for slaughter.
Careful there No.1 you're very close to saying you think there was justification for the slaughter.
Aww go on, you can come right out and say it.
But you can’t view the actions of Hamas as the start of something, it’s not a bubble.
There is a long history of trouble, actions and reactions. You can’t continually oppress people and expect nothing to happen.
28 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidThe Quran has these statements: Here is a couple of a dozen or so:
I'm doubting the Quran makes any such claims on Muslims that they MUST convert or kill all non-Muslims. And the vast majority of Muslims don't see that either.
“And kill them wherever you find them, and expel them from where they had expelled you. Oppression is more serious than murder. But do not fight them at the Sacred Mosque, unless they fight you there. If they fight you, then kill them. Such is the retribution of the disbelievers.” (Quran, 2:191)
“And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them go on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” (Quran, 9:5)
Here it references unbelievers, specifially mentioning Jews, Christians and infidels. The justification for these statements seem to be that it is a time of war and they are called to fight against unbelievers. However you also find that in peaceful nations some Muslims are extremists, while the large percentage are moderate.
In the case of the Palestinians they have always been at war so it is easy to justify killing off Jews wherever you find them.
Muslims who do not know these passages are either lying or ignorant of them. The bible can similarly be used to justify all kinds of atroticies and Christian extremists have done that. I am a Christian and I will not justify or make excuses for Christian extremists who kill people because they think the bible says to do it.
28 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidThe bible can be taken and twisted out of context to justify just about anything. Same with the Quran. Its all about the nature and intent of the reader. You want to kill, there are supporting passages to kill. You want peace, the Quran provides support for that as well.
I notice you did not respond to my statement:
"Their interpretations of the Quran are at variance with what every single government ever established by Muslims practiced."
Is that an admission the statement is true? If so, who cares if some extremists interpret it differently? The same could be said of virtually every religion on Earth.
But there are far less Christian extremists, than there are Islamic ones. There are also Islamic governments that are based on extreme interpretation of the Quran. These are offshoots of ISIS and Boko Haram. Then there was the Taliban and Saddam Husseins's regime. There are more.
28 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidWe actually agree No.1
I don't justify war crimes or crimes against humanity by anyone.
Apparently you do IF your hateful ignorance justifies it in your mind.
Israel has a right, even an obligation to respond to the rocket attacks which are still going on right now.
@caissad4 saidSo the UN definition of a war crime is meaningless then because once you are at war anything is OK Israel declared war on the Palestinians when they planted their western backed state on the land of Palestinians and ethnically cleansed them. So by your logic October 7th wasn’t a war crime it was simply a continuation of the Palestinian response to a state that declared war on them
According to Erdogan , Hamas is NOT a terrorist organization . To that point he may be correct but they are an organization dedicated to establishing an Islamic government in Gaza and destroying Israel . They have ruled Gaza for several years now and have maintained a military presence in Gaza . They are , in fact , the ruling government of Gaza . This ruling government com ...[text shortened]... sts are to be converted or murdered by good Muslims . Read the Quaran and tell me I am wrong , lol .
Hiroshima was fine because Japan declared war on the US
Gaza is being run by Hamas because it suited the Israelis that they, rather than the more moderate PLA ran it and the West Bank at the same time, so the Israelis are committing genocide against the very people that THEY foisted Hamas on to
If I see one more effing Israeli crying about their 1400 dead whilst thousands of innocent Gaza babies and children are getting slaughtered by their Nazi army i’m gonna throw a brick at my TV
28 Oct 23
1 edit
@wajoma saidIsrael has no "rights"; individuals have rights, not nations.
We actually agree No.1
Israel has a right, even an obligation to respond to the rocket attacks which are still going on right now.
As I have already stated, any attacks by Israel must conform to international law even if in "response" to a breach of IL. But Israel is in clear violation of the laws of war both by their use of the Dahiya Doctrine as well as their blockade of food, medicine and other essential supplies to the People of Gaza.
And how does Israel's refusal to agree to a ceasefire that would stop rocket attacks affect your belief that they have a "right" to respond to them with disproportionate force which is killing civilians at a high rate?
28 Oct 23
1 edit
@rajk999 saidNeither the Taliban or Saddam Hussein's governments, repressive as they were, did what the other poster claimed and you parroted i.e. forced everyone to convert to Islam or killed them.
The bible can be taken and twisted out of context to justify just about anything. Same with the Quran. Its all about the nature and intent of the reader. You want to kill, there are supporting passages to kill. You want peace, the Quran provides support for that as well.
But there are far less Christian extremists, than there are Islamic ones. There are also Islamic gov ...[text shortened]... ts of ISIS and Boko Haram. Then there was the Taliban and Saddam Husseins's regime. There are more.
You and that poster should just admit your error made to drum up support for a ridiculous "Holy War".
28 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidDid attacks by Hamas conform to international law?
Israel has no "rights"; individuals have rights, not nations.
As I have already stated, any attacks by Israel must conform to international law even if in "response" to a breach of IL. But Israel is in clear violation of the laws of war both by their use of the Dahiya Doctrine as well as their blockade of food, medicine and other essential supplies to the People of Gaza.
28 Oct 23
@no1marauder saidThis kind of thing is all over the world. Here one of dozens:
Neither the Taliban or Saddam Hussein's governments, repressive as they were, did what the other poster claimed and you parroted i.e. forced everyone to convert to Islam or killed them.
You and that poster should just admit your error made to drum up support for a ridiculous "Holy War".
134 Christians arrested in 2022 for faith related issues
While it is no longer common for Iranian Christians to be killed for their faith, the report confirms that there is still no religious freedom in Iran to this day.
According to its findings, 134 Christians were arrested in 2022 for faith related issues, more than double the 59 recorded in 2021 and at least 30 received prison sentences or were forced into exile. There was also a significant increase in the number of Christians detained – 61 in 2022, compared to 34 in 2021.
At the end of 2022, at least 17 Christians remained in prison, serving sentences of up to 10 years on charges such as “acting against national security” and “propaganda against the regime”. As highlighted by the report, to practice a belief other than Shia Islam is “considered a threat to the Islamic Republic and its values”.
This is why, for example, two Iranian Armenian Christians were sentenced in 2022 to 10 years in prison for holding church services in a private home.
https://www.vaticannews.va/en/church/news/2023-02/iran-harassment-against-iranian-christians-increasing.html
28 Oct 23
@rajk999 said"The 1.9 B does not detract from the extremists."
The 1.9 B does not detract from the extremists. It does not work like that. Are you doubting that there are Islamic extremists who follow the Quran to convert or kill ? Thats the option in their books, and some take it seriously.
Yes they do. Are you so insane as to think 1.9b people approve muslim terrorists and they didn't become terrorists themselves simply because they had previous engagements? That is like saying christians support the spanish inquisition because they don't condemn it every day
"Are you doubting that there are Islamic extremists who follow the Quran to convert or kill ? "
are you doubting there are christian extremists that shoot up synagogues?
"Thats the option in their books, and some take it seriously."
the bible tells the people of israel to kill all infidels when they conquer a city. They built that kingdom on ethnic cleansing. The bible says to stone women to death if they are not virgins on their wedding night.
All holy texts have some disgusting excrement in them, what's your point.
Btw, the countries that have majority christians kill many times more people than extremist muslim terrorists.
You feel morally superior those deaths are done by drones and bombings than by suicide bomb or a rocket made out of manure and rusty pipe?
28 Oct 23
@caissad4 saidit's a metaphor dude
You obviously have never , ever read the whole Quaran . You really should actually do some research before spouting off your opinions .
No respectable muslim interprets jihad as an actual war. It's a moral struggle.
yes, i know it's a no true scotsman but it's true. I promise i will try and not use another before the end of the year.