Originally posted by Iron Monkeyat least someone has a good idea of the history fo that language.
wrong. English is basically a Germanic language descended from those brought to England by the Angles and the Saxons (Anglo-Saxons, Angle-ish, get it?), and other tribes. it was heavily influenced by Norman French after the invasion in 1066 A.D., and by the languages of learning - Greek and Latin. it has also imported words from around the far-flung former British empire.
The post that was quoted here has been removedThink of it this way:
Philosophy - Greek
Medicine - Latin
Politics - Greek/Latin
Science - Latin/Greek
The dominance of English sprung of the movement that started with the industrial revolution. Similarly, these examples above reflect the periods where dominant paradigms were established across the spectrum.
If you still look at the etymology of English words versus, say, the etymology of French, you'll see that English still has many more words that have root in Latin than French has words that root on Germanic/English languages.
If anything, I'd say it's Latin and Greek that possess this flexibility and adaptability. New concepts are easily expressed in a meaningful and fluid way by using juxtaposition in these two languages, in a way that in English would sound horrible. For example, neologism would be what? New-wording? Just awful.
I love the English language, but you're deluding yourself for thinking that English is the prime global language because of anything beyond economic and geo-political reasons. Just look at history. The rise and fall of Latin in Europe coincides with the rise and fall of the Roman Empire. This is obviously not a coincidence, nor is it now for English.
The post that was quoted here has been removedOh, in that we agree. English is the global language and more
variety of people use it than any other language.
I just think that English does not evolve as much as Latin already did,
i.e. not many ramifications (if any, at all).
However, if we wait some hundreds of years, English may show that,
indeed, it is plural and rich enough to produce, let's say, 15 or 20
well identified variations.
As for "mastering" English, that's just Anglocentric babble, or
proper of anal retentives... or linguists, of course.
Let the natives master their own language (specially the English
speakers) and then learn another one... like the rest of us do.
For us (non native speakers), it is enough to learn it up until it serves
the pragmatic purpose of functioning in the global world.
Originally posted by Seitsesure, but obviously diplomats, top business people and professionals etc. will not be content to speak pidgin English, but will insist that their teachers get them as close to speaking like a native as possible. language schools that teach ESL/EFL etc. tend to be fussy about even the accents of the teachers they hire, especially the more upmarket ones.
For us (non native speakers), it is enough to learn it up until it serves
the pragmatic purpose of functioning in the global world.
PS: 'global world' is redundant.
Originally posted by SeitseLern scouse, and prospa their. Grate plaice an gud fun. Yewl lern allot if yew go their! Thas propper inglish laar! 😉
As for "mastering" English, that's just Anglocentric babble, or
proper of anal retentives... or linguists, of course.
Let the natives master their own language (specially the English
speakers) and then learn another one... like the rest of us do.
For us (non native speakers), it is enough to learn it up until it serves
the pragmatic purpose of functioning in the global world.
VIII.
Music to hear, why hear'st thou music sadly?
Sweets with sweets war not, joy delights in joy.
Why lovest thou that which thou receivest not gladly,
Or else receivest with pleasure thine annoy?
If the true concord of well-tuned sounds,
By unions married, do offend thine ear,
They do but sweetly chide thee, who confounds
In singleness the parts that thou shouldst bear.
Mark how one string, sweet husband to another,
Strikes each in each by mutual ordering,
Resembling sire and child and happy mother
Who all in one, one pleasing note do sing:
Whose speechless song, being many, seeming one,
Sings this to thee: 'thou single wilt prove none.'
William Shakespeare, Sonnets
Originally posted by SeitseWhy is mastering English Anglocentric babble? If you're a native English speaker surely mastering it is something you should aim for. As a native Spanish speaker should do for Spanish, or a native Russian should do for Russian.
As for "mastering" English, that's just Anglocentric babble, or
proper of anal retentives... or linguists, of course.
Let the natives master their own language (specially the English
speakers) and then learn another one... like the rest of us do.
For us (non native speakers), it is enough to learn it up until it serves
the pragmatic purpose of functioning in the global world.
In fact why shouldn't non-native language speakers aim to learn the languages they do speak as well as possible? Is it a bad thing to be very good at the languages you speak?
The post that was quoted here has been removedYou're muddling two things that, although interconnected, are not the same.
The first one is, from a static perspective, the inherent flexibility and adaptability inherent to a language. The second one is the widespread range and the number of speakers
I agree that languages are dynamic, and therefore having the second one will have a positive effect of the first one. But the causal link between the first and the latter is much thinner, if any. History proves my point, with Latin being the prime example.
What matters for the success of advertising a new DVD is the audience that it reaches, the second quality. What makes the difference is expressing new, unexisting terms, is the flexibility of a language. It's there that you need to combine and extend meanings of pre-existing concepts to adapt to new ones. What better definition of flexibility than that one?
Sonnet XVIII, Shall I Compare Thee?
By William Shakespeare
Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And Summer's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimm'd;
And every fair from fair sometime declines,
By chance or nature's changing course untrimm'd:
But thy eternal Summer shall not fade
Nor lose possession of that fair thou ow'st;
Nor shall Death brag thou wander'st in his shade,
When in eternal lines to time thou grow'st:
So long as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.
Originally posted by Rene-ClaudeWhat a delightful post from a man who's native tongue reads more of English beauty than most of the drivel posted here could ever see.
Sonnet XVIII, Shall I Compare Thee?
By William Shakespeare
Shall I compare thee to a Summer's day?
Thou art more lovely and more temperate:
Rough winds do shake the darling buds of May,
And Summer's lease hath all too short a date:
Sometime too hot the eye of heaven shines,
And often is his gold complexion dimm'd;
And every fair from fair somet ...[text shortened]... g as men can breathe, or eyes can see,
So long lives this, and this gives life to thee.
I commend you Rene-Claude! Well done! 🙂