Beautiful English

Originally posted by Nordlys
I feel and think differently when I use different languages. I wouldn't go as far as saying that my identity changes, but it goes deeper than a change of the social persona.

Hey catfootidiot, why didn't you pick on Nordlys for thinking that not only social persona and identity are different, but there's something in between?

Originally posted by Pawnokeyhole
I think this is an interesting phenomenon. Do you think that such changes are visible in others too?

Yes. I guess if your social persona changes, then others can see it by definition.

The thing is that it's hard to distinguish which part is due to things like mood, which part is due to the social situation itself and which part is due to language. The person changing languages obvious is better able to distinguish these things, while it may be very hard for others to realize that it's due to language.

The post that was quoted here has been removed

I've always imagined Mr. Hyde with a Russian accent.

Originally posted by Nordlys
I agree, English is quite easy to learn.

Nordlys. with due respect for a Polyglot as yourself you should know better. English is not Easy to learn. Assuming you are a Wessie. you were inundated with English from Primary thru Secondary School. You speak a Germanic Language. And as a polyglot, I woudl think that you would realize that yoru YEARS of langage oar an advangtage over Say a Chinese man who never studied. English.

It never ceases to amaze me the Amount of people who say English is Easy to learn, Yet, when asked, They tell me they studied it from 4 to 10 years in school as a child. A SLIGHT Advantage. People wake up. English is easier because you studied it for so long. Warum Musst ich Y*()^*()^( sagen...

Originally posted by mochiron
Nordlys. with due respect for a Polyglot as yourself you should know better. English is not Easy to learn. Assuming you are a Wessie. you were inundated with English from Primary thru Secondary School. You speak a Germanic Language. And as a polyglot, I woudl think that you would realize that yoru YEARS of langage oar an advangtage over Say a Chinese man wh ...[text shortened]... ke up. English is easier because you studied it for so long. Warum Musst ich Y*()^*()^( sagen...

You can't deny that the grammar is also much easier in English than Latin or Slavic languages, for example.

I agree that, due to vocabulary requirements, it's not an easy language to master but it certainly isn't hard to learn it up to a workable level.

Originally posted by mochiron
Nordlys. with due respect for a Polyglot as yourself you should know better. English is not Easy to learn. Assuming you are a Wessie. you were inundated with English from Primary thru Secondary School. You speak a Germanic Language. And as a polyglot, I woudl think that you would realize that yoru YEARS of langage oar an advangtage over Say a Chinese man wh ...[text shortened]... ke up. English is easier because you studied it for so long. Warum Musst ich Y*()^*()^( sagen...

Yes, I had four years of English at school (grade 7-10), but I was exposed to French far earlier (not at school til grade 8, but I got private lessons when I was 9 y.o. and heard and used it a lot during the summer holidays). Nevertheless, I was always far less proficient at it. I won't count Latin and Greek (each of which I learned for more years than English in school) because we learned it in a completely different way where the aim was not to communicate or understand spoken language, but to translate texts. My Japanese is still completely hopeless, even though I started learning it before I started learning English and worked quite a lot on it at times, although rather inconsistently. Yes, of course it helps a lot that English is a Germanic language (like Norwegian, which is even easier to learn for a German), but I attribute a lot of the ease to the grammar that is much less complicated than for example German (just ask a Norwegian).

Originally posted by Nordlys
I feel and think differently when I use different languages. I wouldn't go as far as saying that my identity changes, but it goes deeper than a change of the social persona.

Thank you -- I was looking for someone to say this. Also: as someone fluent in multiple languages, aren't there moments where you think in multiple languages to express a single thought?

More to the point, there's thought that isn't reducible to language. This is particularly true IMO if you adopt Seitse's position that language is a kind of mental mapping of power relations.

Originally posted by blakbuzzrd
Thank you -- I was looking for someone to say this. Also: as someone fluent in multiple languages, aren't there moments where you think in multiple languages to express a single thought?

More to the point, there's thought that isn't reducible to language. This is particularly true IMO if you adopt Seitse's position that language is a kind of mental mapping of power relations.

I sometimes have a thought in a different language than I predominantly think in at that time, something I can't translate easily; I sometimes have multilingual thoughts; and quite often a thought pops up, but I can't find the word(s) in any language, even though I know that it's somewhere in my head (sometimes I know what language I will find it in, sometimes I only know there's an expression for it in some language I know). And of course there are thoughts that are completely unrelated to language (unlike the thoughts where I can't find the word, but know that it's there). However, my thinking is predominantly language-based. I know other people who have a different predominant thinking mode, e.g. visual or spatial (so they constantly have to translate their thoughts if they want to communicate).

Originally posted by Nordlys
Yes, I had four years of English at school (grade 7-10), but I was exposed to French far earlier (not at school til grade 8, but I got private lessons when I was 9 y.o. and heard and used it a lot during the summer holidays). Nevertheless, I was always far less proficient at it. I won't count Latin and Greek (each of which I learned for more years than Engli ...[text shortened]... se to the grammar that is much less complicated than for example German (just ask a Norwegian).

I agree with this. Apart from Latin, I had education in French, German, English, and some Spanish and Italian. Despite the fact that I have family who speaks French only, I still have less fluency in French than in English. Of course this has to do with internet, work environment, etc. , but also with the language itself. To learn English at basic level (enough to get yourself understood) is easy, because the basic grammar is simple. It becomes harder when one wants to improve and then the spelling is an issue as well as a broader vocabulary. But the main difficulty to become really good are the idioms. Compared to English, French becomes easy to master at that level.

Originally posted by Mephisto2
I agree with this. Apart from Latin, I had education in French, German, English, and some Spanish and Italian. Despite the fact that I have family who speaks French only, I still have less fluency in French than in English. Of course this has to do with internet, work environment, etc. , but also with the language itself. To learn English at basic level (e ...[text shortened]... me really good are the idioms. Compared to English, French becomes easy to master at that level.

at a basic level ..: Yes English is easy. compared to Russian for example. But, not at a high advanced level. I have taught at least 2000 people over the last ten years the language of English and I speak a few languages. I would say it is easier at lover levels and so is Spanish for that matter, but all languages are very difficult to master at advanced levels. As someone pointed out, how you expose yourself to English also matters.

Fortunately, people like Nordlys make an effort to learn other languages especially in the countries that they live in. I am amazed at the amount of foreigners who make no effort to learn the local language, even on a basic level.

Originally posted by mochiron
at a basic level ..: Yes English is easy. compared to Russian for example. But, not at a high advanced level. I have taught at least 2000 people over the last ten years the language of English and I speak a few languages. I would say it is easier at lover levels and so is Spanish for that matter, but all languages are very difficult to master at advanced levels.

Yes, I completely agree with that. When I said that English is easy to learn, what I meant was that it's easy to learn the basics. It's a bit like with playing an instrument. On some instruments you can play some easy melodies almost immediately, on others you may have to work for a while to produce any decent sounds at all. But at an advanced level, you can't really say which instrument is easier to play. Every instrument has its difficulties, and you'll never become perfect on any of them.

Originally posted by mochiron
Fortunately, people like Nordlys make an effort to learn other languages especially in the countries that they live in. I am amazed at the amount of foreigners who make no effort to learn the local language, even on a basic level.

Yes, I find that strange as well. Of course in my case I didn't really have a choice - if you want to work as a music therapist in kindergarten, you won't get far if you don't learn the language of the country you live in. But even if I wouldn't absolutely need it, I can't see myself living in a country without trying to learn the language. You may get by in most situations, but you'll always be a stranger. Here in Norway, most people know enough English to communicate reasonably well, but it's an effort for them, and many of them won't go beyond some polite conversation unless you speak their language.

I am also amazed at the amount of people who are married to someone whose native language is different from their own, but who don't make any effort to learn their spouse's language.

Originally posted by Nordlys
I am also amazed at the amount of people who are married to someone whose native language is different from their own, but who don't make any effort to learn their spouse's language.

She was uneducated Mauritian, with basic French as her second language; he was Maltese, barely literate in his own language. They met in an Australian migrant hostel, where they were both in learn-English classes. Twenty years later, neither has made any attempt to learn the other's language beyond the basics needed to communicate with in-laws, but both are completely fluent in English because they had to be. Their children, born here, converse with both sets of grandparents, happily pick up new languages from classmates and will become true world citizens because of their environment. And they still get top grades in English.