05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseYou're still missing my point. The word 'should' was intended the way you took it, but you missed the rest of what I was saying. My point isn't that there is some obligation to the English nation to master English because it's right or the best, but that each person who speaks a language, any language, 'should' try to master it for themselves alone. In the same way people should try to master any tool, or skill to which they are attended.
I happen to disagree with the word "should", which is what sparked
my disagreement with your views.
The world needs to learn English, period. It is the best way to fit in the
era we're living in.
To what level the world "should" is where we disagree.
For example, a very well functioning international manager, for
example, can be competitive thro ...[text shortened]... her
level of English, at the same time he/she is unable to grasp
Shakespeare very well.
05 Feb 08
The post that was quoted here has been removedI'm not precluding general usage, mastery of anything makes it a rare skill, inapplicable to most everyday situations. I'm trying to suggest that we should aim, not for a sedentary minimum which befits our required day to day needs, but for excellence; falling pleasurably somewhere in between.
05 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanIn an ideal world yes, indeed, it would be good that every person masters anything they pick up for their brains.
You're still missing my point. The word 'should' was intended the way you took it, but you missed the rest of what I was saying. My point isn't that there is some obligation to the English nation to master English because it's right or the best, but that each person who speaks a language, any language, 'should' try to master it for themselves alone. In the same way people should try to master any tool, or skill to which they are attended.
However, where to draw the line between a language or a profession, and a hobby or a survival tool (which can be a language, for that matter).
If tomorrow I travel to the Middle East and in order to get along and bond during the 1 or 2 weeks of holiday I decide to learn Arabic, I wonder why should I learn Arabic to its utmost depth?
To be honest the "should" part feels a little bit opressive and arrogant. English is the international language for hundreds of different factors, except one: It was not a democratic decision by all the people on whose shoulders the need to learn English was placed upon.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by MissOleumC.J. Cherryh was a Latin teacher. Her stuff is hit-and-miss, though.
Not being a particularly fluent writer, I can still appreciate being offered carefully crafted writing to enhance my reading pleasure. James Joyce's earlier works are much more pleasant reading than Finnegan's Wake, which I don't believe is even English!
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseDude, get off the nationalistic vibe, I'm not in the slightest bit concerned about which country this or that. The 'should' has nothing to do with that, if I'd have known it was going to cause you such discomfort I'd have used another word.
In an ideal world yes, indeed, it would be good that every person masters anything they pick up for their brains.
However, where to draw the line between a language or a profession, and a hobby or a survival tool (which can be a language, for that matter).
If tomorrow I travel to the Middle East and in order to get along and bond during the 1 or 2 weeks ...[text shortened]... ratic decision by all the people on whose shoulders the need to learn English was placed upon.
As far as I'm concerned, and for all my points, language is about communication (sometimes between different nations, of course), but not national identity.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanWell, it seems you hit the nail in the source of our disagreement:
Dude, get off the nationalistic vibe, I'm not in the slightest bit concerned about which country this or that. The 'should' has nothing to do with that, if I'd have known it was going to cause you such discomfort I'd have used another word.
As far as I'm concerned, and for all my points, language is about communication (sometimes between different nations, of course), but not national identity.
Language IS cultural identity.
Funny, but I see your position as based in a spark of patriotic pride
and you sense mine the same way.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseHow on earth can you see my position based in patriotic pride? 😲
Well, it seems you hit the nail in the source of our disagreement:
Language [b]IS cultural identity.
Funny, but I see your position as based in a spark of patriotic pride
and you sense mine the same way.[/b]
Anyone who knows me here will tell you how utterly distasteful I think patriotism on any level is.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanI think MissO and Tim said it already, and I concur: The word "should" is crucial here.
How on earth can you see my position based in patriotic pride? 😲
Anyone who knows me here will tell you how utterly distasteful I think patriotism on any level is.
Nobody "should" learn anything.
In this life all we are obligated to do is to respect the laws of the State we are in, at the expense of receiving a sanction in case of not doing so.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseWhat a miserable view of life. Everyone 'should' strive to learn and do as much as they can in life, the state is secondary to experience or you're just an automaton.
I think MissO and Tim said it already, and I concur: The word "should" is crucial here.
Nobody "should" learn anything.
In this life all we are obligated to do is to respect the laws of the State we are in, at the expense of receiving a sanction in case of not doing so.
05 Feb 08
I used www.m-w.com
Main Entry:should
Pronunciation:\shəd, ˈshu̇d\
Function:verbal auxiliary
Etymology:Middle English sholde, from Old English sceolde owed, was obliged to, ought to
Date:before 12th century
So, I repeat, nobody is obliged to learn English, unless it is a
condition by law to achieve a goal sought by the individual, e.g. a
citizenship, a job, etc.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanI won't lower myself to qualify in a demeaning way your opinion, since
What a miserable view of life. Everyone 'should' strive to learn and do as much as they can in life, the state is secondary to experience or you're just an automaton.
it is respectable even though I don't share it.
However, trust me: life is a terrible thing to waste going around
trying to tell others what they "should" do.