05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseAre you wilfully refusing to understand my point. Nobody should learn English in particular, other than that they need it to function in their society. Everybody should try learn whichever language they do speak, be it whatever, to the fullest they are capable of.
I used www.m-w.com
Main Entry:should
Pronunciation:\shəd, ˈshu̇d\
Function:verbal auxiliary
Etymology:Middle English sholde, from Old English sceolde owed, was obliged to, ought to
Date:before 12th century
So, I repeat, nobody is obliged to learn English, unless it is a
condition by law to achieve a goal sought by the individual, e.g. a
citizenship, a job, etc.
Is this clear enough yet?
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseYou seriously think obeying the state is the prime order of business for anyone? I'm not telling anyone to do anything, I'm expressing my opinion on it in a debate. You do realise this is a debate, and not an order from the state, right?
I won't lower myself to qualify in a demeaning way your opinion, since
it is respectable even though I don't share it.
However, trust me: [b]life is a terrible thing to waste going around
trying to tell others what they "should" do.[/b]
05 Feb 08
1 edit
Originally posted by StarrmanI sustain my opinion: I think it is arrogant to tell others what they should or should not do.
You seriously think obeying the state is the prime order of business for anyone? I'm not telling anyone to do anything, I'm expressing my opinion on it in a debate. You do realise this is a debate, and not an order from the state, right?
As for how good the world would be if all of us strive to master the tools and skills we pick (including the language), I concur with you: It would be a wonderful world and one I would like to live in.
As for me, I keep working hard to master Spanish, my mother tongue, and would like other Spanish native speakers to do the same because it is a beautiful language. On the other hand, I am grateful and honored if non-native Spanish speakers try to master it as well, although I don't think they are obligated to do so. If they happen to go to Spanish speaking areas, and they speak it a little, that will suffice for me. It is a joy for me they even try.
I am sorry, I cannot be more clear than with the above paragrpah.
Perhaps you could learn Spanish and we could discuss this again?
05 Feb 08
[i]As for me, I keep working hard to master Spanish, my mother tongue, and would like other Spanish native speakers to do the same because it is a beautiful language.[b]Eran las tres de la tarde y el sol resplandecia, vivo, centelleante, sobre el mar. La brisa apenas tenia la fuerza para hinchar las velas de las lanchas pescadoran, que surcaban el oceano a la ventura. Reinabo silencio. El silencio solemne, infinito, del mar en calma......
Jose.
Learned it at 13 and never forgot the beauty! Sorry for my non-spanish keyboard and lack of cedillas.. 🙁
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by SeitseOkay, so in fact we agree on most of this. One more question though, does a person's opinion not equate to what they think others should or shouldn't do?
I sustain my opinion: I think it is arrogant to tell others what they should or should not do.
As for how good the world would be if all of us strive to master the tools and skills we pick (including the language), I concur with you: It would be a wonderful world and one I would like to live in.
As for me, I keep working hard to master Spanish, my mothe ...[text shortened]... n with the above paragrpah.
Perhaps you could learn Spanish and we could discuss this again?
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by mikelomOpinion doesn't need to be voiced, rhetoric does. I mean opinion in the essence of holding a personal belief on (in this case) people's actions and beliefs towards language, doesn't that equate to what you think they should or shouldn't do?
No mate, that's called rhetoric! 😛
05 Feb 08
2 edits
Originally posted by StarrmanI think that is the difference between a native speaker and one who is not.
Okay, so in fact we agree on most of this. One more question though, does a person's opinion not equate to what they think others should or shouldn't do?
An opinion, specially if remarked that it is an opinion, is not telling others what they should do. However, as a non-native English speaker, for me the connotation (sic) of "should" is the dictionary one, the strong one. I cannot notice the same way as you do the different "shades of gray" in a word. It would be the same if in Spanish I use with you the word "deber" when speaking about washing dishes (debes lavar los trastes, instead of 'deberias lavar los trastes'😉, for example. You would go through your head into a dictionary (imaginary, not literal meaning) and find that it translates as "duty", and jump, saying that yes you will, but it is not your duty, when in reality I meant 'it would be good if you could wash the dishes'.
Finally, even though I don't notice in English the "shades of gray" in a word, that is what discussion is for, to clarify any cultural/language gap between us and find the real points of agreement and disagreement.
05 Feb 08
Originally posted by StarrmanEverything you say and do is rhetorical. You are but a mirror image of yourself?
Opinion doesn't need to be voiced, rhetoric does. I mean opinion in the essence of holding a personal belief on (in this case) people's actions and beliefs towards language, doesn't that equate to what you think they should or shouldn't do?