@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidWell not with nukes, just conventional weapons of fiscal warfare.
You equate a means tested winter fuel payment as an attack on pensioners?
https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/betrayal-after-betrayal-i-have-given-labour
Edit vivify will be writing to them (👆🏼) to accuse them of using “socialism” as a “mistake” and “propaganda”
(Teehee)
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@divegeester saidWith the exception of benefits like PIP, all other benefits are means tested. Is this approach also a fiscal attack on the general population? Should everyone, for example, be entitled to receive Universal Credit, even if they have lots of money and a castle in the South of France?
Well not with nukes, just conventional weapons of fiscal warfare.
Previously, all pensioners were entitled to the winter fuel payment, even if they were well off and didn't need it. Clearly that isn't right. Only pensioners who need the fuel payment to get through the winter should receive it, hence it now being means tested.
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidI acknowledge your support of withdrawing the winter fuel payment from 12.6 million UK pensioners millions of whom are some of the poorest people in the country.
With the exception of benefits like PIP, all other benefits are means tested. Is this approach also a fiscal attack on the general population? Should everyone, for example, be entitled to receive Universal Credit, even if they have lots of money and a castle in the South of France?
Previously, all pensioners were entitled to the winter fuel payment, even if they we ...[text shortened]... need the fuel payment to get through the winter should receive it, hence it now being means tested.
I not sure how you came to the conclusion that the application of this policy has been “means tested” when there hasn’t even been an impact assessment carried out. Arbitrarily deciding who does and who does not get the allowance based on wether on not they already receive another benefit, is not “means testing” and it is certainly not an impact assessment which certainly should be carried out given that the elderly are particularly vulnerable in the cold weather.
But as I said, I acknowledge your support of the decision.
85d
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidDid you read the article in the link I posted, the one which you edited out of your reply?
With the exception of benefits like PIP, all other benefits are means tested. Is this approach also a fiscal attack on the general population?
In case you didn’t, it is a self proclaimed socialist and usually Labour supporting political commentary from which I lifted the “attack” adjective.
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@divegeester saidAcknowledge what you like. I'm simply making the point that the payment should be means tested not given to all pensioners as a blanket payment. (As it was previously).
I acknowledge your support of withdrawing the winter fuel payment from 12.6 million UK pensioners millions of whom are some of the poorest people in the country.
I not sure how you came to the conclusion that the application of this policy has been “means tested” when there hasn’t even been an impact assessment carried out. Arbitrarily deciding who does and who does n ...[text shortened]... larly vulnerable in the cold weather.
But as I said, I acknowledge your support of the decision.
Below is an explanation of how the eligibility is now determined:
You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958.
You must also live in England or Wales and get one of the following:
Pension Credit
Universal Credit
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
Income Support
Child Tax Credit
Working Tax Credit
You’ll also need to have been getting a benefit during the qualifying week of 16 to 22 September 2024.
https://www.gov.uk/winter-fuel-payment/eligibility
Edit: In short, a pensioner who is, as you say, living in poverty, would qualify for pension credit, which in turn would qualify them for the winter fuel payment. Where is the unfairness in that? In contrast, a pensioner who who is doing well financially and doesn't struggle to heat their home in the winter will no longer receive the payment. Is that unfair?
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidHave you ever spoken to anyone who has tried to claim any of these benefits?? With regard to PIP, Personal Independence Payment, there are so many hoops you need to jump through to get anywhere near getting what results in a final physical and mental health assessment ON the telephone which decides a yes or no. You need to be fluent in the English Language and capable of writing to comprehend and fill in the forms you are sent. The process takes months, involves an initial conversation with a representative of PIP in the head office which is based in Northern Ireland 🫤 deliberately so stationed there I believe so that you struggle to comprehend the accent of the person you get on the phone. He/she will spout endless paragraphs of information in an automated message style which you will need to remember, retain or grasp as he/ she will expect your yes/no every time he/she suddenly pauses and takes a breath. Knowledge of how to record on your mobile phone is advisable, assuming you have enough money to be able to own a pay for the internet in the first place. It just goes on and on. I struggled to navigate the system when I helped support a relative through it. It’s a nightmare!
Acknowledge what you like. I'm simply making the point that the payment should be means tested not given to all pensioners as a blanket payment. (As it was previously).
Below is an explanation of how the eligibility is now determined:
You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958.
You must also live in E ...[text shortened]... oesn't struggle to heat their home in the winter will no longer receive the payment. Is that unfair?
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@Drewnogal saidYes, is part of my job to assist people in applying for benefits, especially PIP, which I agree is a laborious process. There is however help out there in completing such forms (or assisting with phone calls/face to face assessments) and the government could certainly do a lot more when it comes to signposting.
Have you ever spoken to anyone who has tried to claim any of these benefits?? With regard to PIP, Personal Independence Payment, there are so many hoops you need to jump through to get anywhere near getting what results in a final physical and mental health assessment ON the telephone which decides a yes or no. You need to be fluent in the English Language and capable of wr ...[text shortened]... n. I struggled to navigate the system when I helped support a relative through it. It’s a nightmare!
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@A-Unique-Nickname saidI suspect they fear you would spend the payment on pickled eggs and cider.
They still refuse to give it to me, it's so cold 🥶❄️
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidThat is not “means testing” and the decision to withdraw the winter fuel allowance from the vast majority of pensioners has not had the scrutiny of an official impact assessment.
Acknowledge what you like. I'm simply making the point that the payment should be means tested not given to all pensioners as a blanket payment. (As it was previously).
Below is an explanation of how the eligibility is now determined:
You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958.
You must also live in E ...[text shortened]... oesn't struggle to heat their home in the winter will no longer receive the payment. Is that unfair?
https://news.sky.com/story/winter-fuel-payments-sir-keir-starmer-says-no-impact-assessment-has-been-carried-out-13213760
I acknowledge your support of Labour’s objective to save money by primarily targeting some the poorest people in the UK.
@Drewnogal saidThis is absolutely true.
I honestly believe that a lot of entitled people miss out upon benefits because they lack the ability to get through the application process.
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@divegeester saidAcknowledge what you like. I'm simply making the point that the payment should be means tested not given to all pensioners as a blanket payment. (As it was previously).
That is not “means testing” and the decision to withdraw the winter fuel allowance from the vast majority of pensioners has not had the scrutiny of an official impact assessment.
https://news.sky.com/story/winter-fuel-payments-sir-keir-starmer-says-no-impact-assessment-has-been-carried-out-13213760
I acknowledge your support of Labour’s objective to save money by primarily targeting some the poorest people in the UK.
85d
@Ghost-of-a-Duke saidI agree that is should be means tested, but it hasn’t been.
I'm simply making the point that the payment should be means tested not given to all pensioners as a blanket payment. (As it was previously).
There should also be an impact assessment, especially as it may put lives in danger, and there hasn't been.
No means testing, no impact assessment. Just an arbitrary and lazy “attack on pensioners “ as I quoted from the socialist pro-Labour media platform; which you ignored when you were challenging the adjective “attack”.