23 Apr 06
Originally posted by Seitsebtw, about what you were talking with nordlys about finno-ugric languages. finnish and estonian are not really close enough to understand. estonian sounds really familiar to us finns, but most words have a different meaning. on the other hand, estonians usually speak some finnish, because during the soviet reign they watched finnish television. the two languages are not as close as spanish and italian, more like english and swedish.
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sami languages (there are 10 of them) and hungarian just don't sound familiar to us at all. there are only a handful of familiar words. for instance, in finnish there are a LOT more words from swedish than from either any sami language or hungarian.
23 Apr 06
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Originally posted by wormwoodThanks for the insight, mate 🙂 Actually I am struggling to learn both (Finnish from my gf and Estonian because I live here) and in a few years I will tell you my opinion. So far, all I know is what the books say, that they belong to the same family 😉
btw, about what you were talking with nordlys about finno-ugric languages. finnish and estonian are not really close enough to understand. estonian sounds really familiar to us finns, but most words have a different meaning. on the other hand, estonians usually speak some finnish, because during the soviet reign they watched finnish television. the t innish there are a LOT more words from swedish than from either any sami language or hungarian.
Here, by the way, everybody speaks at least some Finnish, perhaps for the movies you mention but also because the country is flooded with Finns 🙂 [Heaven bless you, Brits and Swedes, for you keep the Estonian economy going... with some cost for the peacefulness of the place, though... hahaha]
23 Apr 06
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Originally posted by wormwoodKiitos! 🙂 But I don't quite agree about Sami and Finnish. I have learned a little Finnish and a little North Sami, and there were quite a few words which were clearly related. I have also learned a little Hungarian, and while there are some basic grammatical or phonetic similarities (e.g. vowel harmony), the vocabulary is completely different from Finnish (as well as from North Sami), as you say.
btw, about what you were talking with nordlys about finno-ugric languages. finnish and estonian are not really close enough to understand. estonian sounds really familiar to us finns, but most words have a different meaning. on the other hand, estonians usually speak some finnish, because during the soviet reign they watched finnish television. the t innish there are a LOT more words from swedish than from either any sami language or hungarian.
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by NordlysI think both of you can debate this issue with far more knowledge than I. I am still learning both [Eesti ja Suomea 😉 ] and my opinion is that they are both equally complicated, haha
Kiitos! 🙂 But I don't quite agree about Sami and Finnish. I have learned a little Finnish and a little North Sami, and there were quite a few words which were clearly related. I have also learned a little Hungarian, and while there are some basic grammatical or phonetic similarities (e.g. vowel harmony), the vocabulary is completely different from Finnish (as well as from North Sami), as you say.
Sincerely, I do find similar words and pronuntiation [my mother tongues have only 5 vowels so go figure how trustworthy my opinion is], however, I'm far from issuing a conclusive opinion.
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by Seitsegood luck, you'll need it! 😀 as you already know, finnish grammar differs, eh, slightly from those simple romance or germanic languages that probably are more familiar to you. 🙂 verbs can be conjugated in 200 different forms at least, there's suffixes instead of prepositions, huge vocabulary, vowel harmony etc... I can't really think of anything in finnish that was easy. 🙂 it must be hell to learn, but I guess love is the best motivator there is. 🙂
Thanks for the insight, mate 🙂 Actually I am struggling to learn both (Finnish from my gf and Estonian because I live here) and in a few years I will tell you my opinion. So far, all I know is what the books say, that they belong to the same family 😉...
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by wormwoodFrom "Lessons in Finnish Grammar" by Vuokko Heikura:
I can't really think of anything in finnish that was easy. 🙂
"This book was written to counter the legend that 'Finnish is difficult'. Finnish is a logical language, and therefore not more difficult than languages in general. In some respects, it is an easy language.
First of all, there is the absence of articles and gender, and further, the rules of writing and pronunciation are easier than in many other languages, among them French and English. Many foreigners have learned to speak Finnish rather quickly and competently, even as adults."
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by wormwoodhahaha, let's see and yeah, I guess the technique used by my gf is good [a Finn linguist specialized in German language - imagine the cold discipline she applies on me!]: If you don't ask it in Estonian and Finnish you don't get it 😲
good luck, you'll need it! 😀 as you already know, finnish grammar differs, eh, slightly from those simple romance or germanic languages that probably are more familiar to you. 🙂 verbs can be conjugated in 200 different forms at least, there's suffixes instead of prepositions, huge vocabulary, vowel harmony etc... I can't really think of anything in ...[text shortened]... at was easy. 🙂 it must be hell to learn, but I guess love is the best motivator there is. 🙂
Btw, happy 1st of May over there, mate. I'll spend it in Pori and it promises to be fun.
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by Nordlysthe absence of gender is a definite plus. but I think heikura is talking out of her *** concerning pronunciation. -I have never heard a foreigner pronounce finnish correctly, not even after living 20-30 years here. unless he had learned it as a child. understandably yes, correctly no. -my ex-gf's dad is french, and has been living 40 years here. he still talks like a robot.
From "Lessons in Finnish Grammar" by Vuokko Heikura:
"This book was written to counter the legend that 'Finnish is difficult'. Finnish is a logical language, and therefore not more difficult than languages in general. In some respects, it is an easy language.
First of all, there is the absence of articles and gender, and further, the rules of writing a ...[text shortened]... foreigners have learned to speak Finnish rather quickly and competently, even as adults."
japanese seem to have less problems with finnish than other people. the pronunciation is almost identical, with the exception that they don't have an 'l'. finns also learn to speak japanese quite easily for the same reason.
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by Seitseoh, I'm from near pori originally. living in helsinki nowadays. yea, happy may 1st, or 'vappu' as we call it. 🙂
Btw, happy 1st of May over there, mate. I'll spend it in Pori and it promises to be fun.
pori's hockey team 'ässät' lost national league finals yesterday, so they might be a bit under the weather. 🙂
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by wormwoodWell, most people who learn German, English, or whatever other language as adults never learn to pronounce it so well that you can't hear they are foreigners either. After living in Norway for over six years, I may fool some people for a little while, but not for long (although they can very rarely guess that I am German), and I know several foreigners who have lived here much longer than me whose pronunciation is much worse. For Germans, I'd say Finnish and Japanese are much easier to pronounce than for example English.
the absence of gender is a definite plus. but I think heikura is talking out of her *** concerning pronunciation. -I have never heard a foreigner pronounce finnish correctly, not even after living 20-30 years here. unless he had learned it as a child. understandably yes, correctly no. -my ex-gf's dad is french, and has been living 40 years here. he s ...[text shortened]... they don't have an 'l'. finns also learn to speak japanese quite easily for the same reason.
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by Nordlysit might also be that you use perfect grammar. it's a dead giveaway... you can spot most 'tvåspråkiga' finns here just for that. -they pronounce correctly, but the grammar is too perfect.
Well, most people who learn German, English, or whatever other language as adults never learn to pronounce it so well that you can't hear they are foreigners either. After living in Norway for over six years, I may fool some people for a little while, but not for long (although they can very rarely guess that I am German), and I know several foreigners who h ...[text shortened]... r Germans, I'd say Finnish and Japanese are much easier to pronounce than for example English.
I think I could pass as a brazilian, but I learned portuguese already as a little kid, so it doesn't count...
23 Apr 06
Originally posted by wormwoodI have managed to pass as a Finn, although not when speaking Finnish. 😉
it might also be that you use perfect grammar. it's a dead giveaway... you can spot most 'tvåspråkiga' finns here just for that. -they pronounce correctly, but the grammar is too perfect.
I think I could pass as a brazilian, but I learned portuguese already as a little kid, so it doesn't count...
What my sister (who studied in Helsinki for a year) found most difficult was that the Finns leave out half of the syllables when talking fast. Another thing which made it difficult to learn Finnish was that most people talked English to her.