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12 Nov 06
The post that was quoted here has been removedI dont really know enough about the Ruy or Scotch to comment. Iv started to learn the scotch recently and since that is played at the top level I assume it is easier for high level players with white to obtain an advantage compared to in the KG.
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12 Nov 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterWell I can only relay what she said, since shes 2460ish now and played the KG for 10 years or so id go with her advice 🙂
Well that's fine, but I still doubt that 2300's are good enough to play it that well without having studied it pretty deeply.
12 Nov 06
Originally posted by BedlamYeah, my plan has always been to learn a second white opening one I reach 1800 - something more sound than the KG. But I've still got some 200 points to go until then. 🙂
Well I can only relay what she said, since shes 2460ish now and played the KG for 10 years or so id go with her advice 🙂
But I still feel like she's giving the KG less credit than it deserves.
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12 Nov 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterI suspect shes talking from experience 🙂
Yeah, my plan has always been to learn a second white opening one I reach 1800 - something more sound than the KG. But I've still got some 200 points to go until then. 🙂
But I still feel like she's giving the KG less credit than it deserves.
Iv never lost a KG game otb, but recently I played someone whos the same rating as me for about 20 games at first I won every KG game but I must have lost the last 5 or so.....it really does become a lot harder when black studies the opening quitea bit.
She used to play the classical sicilian too but changed that recently because she did a lot of lines for the Informer, ECO etc and had a lot of games in databases with that opening so was running into prepared lines.
12 Nov 06
Originally posted by BedlamI think that's the case with any opening. I saw some of your games against the guy you're talking about, and you seemed decent out of the opening - unless you have an example that shows otherwise.. And you also have to remember that you weren't preparing as well as he was.
I suspect shes talking from experience 🙂
Iv never lost a KG game otb, but recently I played someone whos the same rating as me for about 20 games at first I won every KG game but I must have lost the last 5 or so.....it really does become a lot harder when black studies the opening quitea bit.
She used to play the classical sicilian too but changed that ...[text shortened]... CO etc and had a lot of games in databases with that opening so was running into prepared lines.
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12 Nov 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterSure, I got playable games but no real advantage. I felt my only hope of a win was to outplay them in complications instead of nurturing an opening edge 🙂
I think that's the case with any opening. I saw some of your games against the guy you're talking about, and you seemed decent out of the opening - unless you have an example that shows otherwise.. And you also have to remember that you weren't preparing as well as he was.
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12 Nov 06
1 edit
1. e4 {7} e5 {8} 2. f4 {4} exf4 {3} 3. Bc4 {2} Qh4+ {10} 4. Kf1 {4} d6 {13} 5.
Nc3 {4} Nf6 {23} 6. Nf3 {3} Qh6 {32} 7. d4 {10} Be7 {82}
We came to this position quiet often. White isnt bad here.....nice center, fairly good development and after g5 white can play Kg1 and h4 etc but I wouldnt say white had an edge at all.
12 Nov 06
Originally posted by BedlamI'm losing another KG supporter. 🙁
Sure, I got playable games but no real advantage. I felt my only hope of a win was to outplay them in complications instead of nurturing an opening edge 🙂
Objectively speaking, if white is playing to achieve a slight edge to carry out for the entire game without being subjected to complications he or she will be hard pressed to find an opening. If white simply wishes to play a very sound opening things will be much easier, the Ruy, Scotch, and Queen's Gambit are all considered completely sound. (The Scotch may not be by some actually) However does white really get more of an advantage in these lines than in the KG? I'm not convinced. Northern Lad plays top level CC chess on here using only the KG, and he has mentioned feeling a bit troubled in the opening, but his results are still superb nonetheless. If he did play the Ruy Lopez would he have a better record? I'm not sure, that's a question that he'd have to answer. In any case I think the KG is still playable at any level. And tbh I think your teacher lied. 😛 If Polgar can play the KG in modern chess with excellent results I'm convinced that it's still playable. Maybe the Ruy offers better chances for white, but it also means a lot more theory and a lot more study against opponents that are almost definitely better prepared.
12 Nov 06
Originally posted by BedlamI honestly think white's doing fine there. The center and development easily make up for the pawn, imo. Black's queen actually looks kind of out of place, and black's development isn't as easy as white's is.
1. e4 {7} e5 {8} 2. f4 {4} exf4 {3} 3. Bc4 {2} Qh4+ {10} 4. Kf1 {4} d6 {13} 5.
Nc3 {4} Nf6 {23} 6. Nf3 {3} Qh6 {32} 7. d4 {10} Be7 {82} 8. e5
[fen]rnb1k2r/ppp1bppp/3p1n1q/8/2BPPp2/2N2N2/PPP3PP/R1BQ1K1R w kq - 0 8[/fen]
We came to this position quiet often. White isnt bad here.....nice center, fairly good development and after g5 white can play Kg1 and h4 etc but I wouldnt say white had an edge at all.
12 Nov 06
3 edits
Originally posted by cmsMasterF9 gave it about -.45
I honestly think white's doing fine there. The center and development easily make up for the pawn, imo. Black's queen actually looks kind of out of place, and black's development isn't as easy as white's is.
Toga II gave it -.18
Rybka 1.2 BETA about -.07
and Turin 1.2 .13
Not bad at all considering white's down a pawn and engines are know to be material junkies.
Rybka and Turin 1.2 obviously give the least significance to the material disadvantage, but I think that's an objectively equal position against a player that prepared very well for this game.
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12 Nov 06
1 edit
Originally posted by cmsMasterI still support the KG 🙂 If either of us ever get to 2300 we can see for ourselves if its any good at that level.
I'm losing another KG supporter. 🙁
Objectively speaking, if white is playing to achieve a slight edge to carry out for the entire game without being subjected to complications he or she will be hard pressed to find an opening. If white simply wishes to play a very sound opening things will be much easier, the Ruy, Scotch, and Queen's Gambit are all co heory and a lot more study against opponents that are almost definitely better prepared.
White isnt bad in the position but iv found it quite hard to create a win from it.....the rook on h1 starts to tell as the game goes on. Maybe the loses come from a case of the games being 25 or 45 mins and not having enough time to find good moves in the positions, or maybe I was just off form without realising it....I will have to play him again a few times this week and see how its goes 🙂
Im still going to play it OTB with confidence.
12 Nov 06
Originally posted by BedlamAs I think you should until it starts giving you headaches. Both of us have records to show for the KG's performance, and I guess the only way to tell if that's just because we're amazing players is if we switched openings, which I simply don't have time to do right now.
I still support the KG 🙂 If either of us ever get to 2300 we can see for ourselves if its any good at that level.
White isnt bad in the position iv found it quite hard to create a win from it.....the rook on h1 starts to tell as the game goes on. Maybe the loses come from a case of the games being 25 or 45 mins and not having enough time to find good moves in the positions. Im still going to play it OTB with confidence.
12 Nov 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterToga II and Turin 1.2 jump all over with this, it seems the longer I let it run the more of an edge they give to white. Turin II actually got up to .26, then went back down to -.08. In any case I think it shows that the position is equal.
F9 gave it about -.45
Toga II gave it -.18
Rybka 1.2 BETA about -.07
and Turin 1.2 .13
Not bad at all considering white's down a pawn and engines are know to be material junkies.
Rybka and Turin 1.2 obviously give the least significance to the material disadvantage, but I think that's an objectively equal position against a player that prepared very well for this game.
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12 Nov 06
Originally posted by cmsMasterIm going to see what the Scotch offers..the Mieses variation looks fun.
As I think you should until it starts giving you headaches. Both of us have records to show for the KG's performance, and I guess the only way to tell if that's just because we're amazing players is if we switched openings, which I simply don't have time to do right now.
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. d4 exd4 4. Nxd4 Nf6 5. Nxc6 bxc6
6. e5 Qe7 7. Qe2 Nd5 8. c4 Ba6
Almost as mad as a KG 😛