Zugzwang

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
I don't see why computers would not understand zugzwang...I mean, Fritz would easily finish off the Bishop ending shown earlier. Could you give an example of a computer not using zugzwang properly?

sure..
this is what i read and why i started this thread
http://www.wretched.demon.co.uk/Chess.htm

Zugzwang
David Levy also points out that Zugzwang can be difficult for computers. The pieces are on okay squares, there are perhaps a few pawn moves available before one side is forced to make a worsening piece move, so the computer can not see that the forthcoming doom.

Zugzwang is especially important in endings, especially King and Pawn endings, but it is difficult to give specific advice on how to exploit this weakness other than to head for endings when suitable opportunities present themselves.


I also read this page but dont say about zugz.....
but maybe use to others
http://homepage.ntlworld.com/adam.bozon/computers.htm

I also read a tutorial or maybe cbt that computers have trouble with Zwichenzug im trying to find it.. will post once I do..

Originally posted by CenterNut
sure..
this is what i read and why i started this thread
http://www.wretched.demon.co.uk/Chess.htm

Zugzwang
David Levy also points out that Zugzwang can be difficult for computers. The pieces are on okay squares, there are perhaps a few pawn moves available before one side is forced to make a worsening piece move, so the computer can not see that the ...[text shortened]... e cbt that computers have trouble with Zwichenzug im trying to find it.. will post once I do..

Aha, it is as I suspected.

The problem Levy is trying to describe is horizon effect, not zugzwang. Horizon effect is when the computer is looking ahead say, nine moves, and everything looks fine; but disaster lurks on move 10. This is a problem for comps whether zugzwang exists or not.

Originally posted by BigDoggProblem
Aha, it is as I suspected.

The problem Levy is trying to describe is horizon effect, not zugzwang. Horizon effect is when the computer is looking ahead say, nine moves, and everything looks fine; but disaster lurks on move 10. This is a problem for comps whether zugzwang exists or not.

kool.. any other tactics I should know about that computers have problems with..
I know chessmaster & fritz are exceptional engines but can you point out any other weakness they have I should know about. thx 🙄

he does say this about that..

The 'Horizon' Effect
The 'Horizon' effect is what happens when you don't calculate variations deep enough to understand the tactics.

Worse still if you see something bad is going to happen (losing a piece) and you can put it off for a few moves by say sacrificing a pawn, then the machine may not realise it is still going to lose a piece. Thus it sees a choice between losing a pawn and losing a piece, and chooses loosing the pawn - eventually it loses both a piece and a pawn.

Originally posted by CenterNut
kool.. any other tactics I should know about that computers have problems with..
I know chessmaster & fritz are exceptional engines but can you point out any other weakness they have I should know about. thx 🙄

One historic weakness is closed positions with the need for slow maneuvering instead of open games, in which the computer's greater tactical awareness spells doom for most humans.

That one game Kasparov won vs. Deep Fritz is an extreme example.

Originally posted by CenterNut
yep im wrong sorry.. 😉

Phew, that's alright.


However, my hair feels a little looser round the roots after this thread.