@JW's: Do I need to join the JWs to go to heaven?

Originally posted by divegeester
Do I need to join the JWs to go to heaven?

I don't think we have a clearcut answer yet - Yes or No.

Do we have a no? Then JW is not the only way.
Do we have a yes? Then the christian religion is very small, and most of the people calleing themselves christians are wrong.

Well, do we have a Yes or a No?

Originally posted by FabianFnas
I don't think we have a clearcut answer yet - Yes or No.

Do we have a no? Then JW is not the only way.
Do we have a yes? Then the christian religion is very small, and most of the people calleing themselves christians are wrong.

Well, do we have a Yes or a No?

No matter what I answer my friend you would not be satisfied. You know it and I surely know it.
If you sincerly wanted to learn what the JW's believed and understood from the Bible to be truth, your questionings would be sincere wether you believed us or not. But we all know why you post and it's not with wanting to learn.
But maybe someday that will change. That would be nice...

Originally posted by galveston75
No matter what I answer my friend you would not be satisfied. You know it and I surely know it.
If you sincerly wanted to learn what the JW's believed and understood from the Bible to be truth, your questionings would be sincere wether you believed us or not. But we all know why you post and it's not with wanting to learn.
But maybe someday that will change. That would be nice...

So there is no painless answer for you to deliver? It's a question that make you realize that you belong to a JW cult based on a lie?

You deny christianity as a whole, or you know that JW is not the right belief, that's the two alternative you have to chose from, and you cannot do it. To hurtful.

Okay, some day you hae to wake up, the sooner the better. When this has sunk in in your mind, then you will thank us all.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
So there is no painless answer for you to deliver? It's a question that make you realize that you belong to a JW cult based on a lie?

You deny christianity as a whole, or you know that JW is not the right belief, that's the two alternative you have to chose from, and you cannot do it. To hurtful.

Okay, some day you hae to wake up, the sooner the better. When this has sunk in in your mind, then you will thank us all.

Lol...Your awesome.

Originally posted by galveston75
Lol...Your awesome.

Remember Mathew 5:5. Chill down. Don't act like blow-fish. It's not christian.

Funny to see that noone else in the little cult of yours can answer. Pretty sad, isn't it? Noone is helping you. You're alone.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Remember Mathew 5:5. Chill down. Don't act like blow-fish. It's not christian.

Funny to see that noone else in the little cult of yours can answer. Pretty sad, isn't it? Noone is helping you. You're alone.

Yes credit to Galv for at least having the nads to get stuck in where others are err..not.

Originally posted by galveston75
But your missing many, many points that scriptures speaks of such things as "only he that is doing the "WILL" of God will be saved" or the commands from Jesus to "preach the Good news of the Kingdom earth wide" or "to be no part of the world". All your arguments and answers never touch on these points and what they mean and they are very important issues say his death would cancel out that command?
I'll be waitng for your responce.....

I think you are missing the simplicity of my question Galv75. Irrespective of works or faith, how good or bad you are, or of doctrine on salvation.........consider it this way.

Lets suppose I am a full-on good work guy, fully on the Christian trial and doing what I need to and should do. Like Paul I am without reproach when it comes to good works...

Now 2 scenarios:

1) I am invited to become a JW and I refuse - do I lose my salvation (assuming I had it) - yes or no? (actually you just need to say that it's possible that I wouldn't lose my salvation.....!!)

2) I'm already a JW and decide to leave the organisation and join perhaps the CofE for example or maybe join no-one; do I lose my salvation - yes or no?

These are not trick questions, just real life possible scenarios.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
Remember Mathew 5:5. Chill down. Don't act like blow-fish. It's not christian.

Funny to see that noone else in the little cult of yours can answer. Pretty sad, isn't it? Noone is helping you. You're alone.

I answered clearly but it's not what you want to hear. Nothing else to be said.

Originally posted by divegeester
I think you are missing the simplicity of my question Galv75. Irrespective of works or faith, how good or bad you are, or of doctrine on salvation.........consider it this way.

Lets suppose I am a full-on good work guy, fully on the Christian trial and doing what I need to and should do. Like Paul I am without reproach when it comes to good works... ...[text shortened]... y salvation - yes or no?

These are not trick questions, just real life possible scenarios.

Ok...I'll make this as simple as it will get. So if you don't like it or understand it or agree with it..this is my very last comment on this silly yes or no circus.
The first and formost point is your question cannot be simple answered with yes or no because no one on this planet is saved in any way shape or form until God gives this at a latter time and on a couple different levels. So until you ever understand that huge point you'll never understand why their is no yes or no answer that you so eagerly want because there is much more to it then you understand.
And if one does belong to an organization that God approves, let's the light shine brighter and brighter with new and true knowledge daily and is obviously guiding them to prosper and spread the "Good News of the Kingdom" earth wide...why would one want to leave? But if they do then it would be apparent that said person would no longer be under God's protection as he's promised his people and would then be out in the world that Satan is in control of.
So there it is in a nutshell but if you insist on a yes or no answer you'll never get it without an explination, so there is no need to keep asking for one. Sorry.

Originally posted by galveston75
And if one does belong to an organization that God approves...why would one want to leave? But if they do then it would be apparent that said person would no longer be under God's protection as he's promised his people and would then be out in the world that Satan is in control of.

So that's a "yes"? If that person left the JWs they would then lose their eternal life? Cult doctrine of fear and confusion indeed.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple that mankind struggles to believe it. John 3:16, read the simplicity and beauty of sacrifice and eternal secure salvation.

Originally posted by galveston75
I answered clearly but it's not what you want to hear. Nothing else to be said.

How do you know what answer I want to hear?
Do you think I want a yes? Or a no?

What I really want to hear is the truth from you. Can you deliver that? I think you cannot.

Think of Math 5:5 before you answer.

Originally posted by divegeester
So that's a "yes"? If that person left the JWs they would then lose their eternal life? Cult doctrine of fear and confusion indeed.

The gospel of Jesus Christ is so simple that mankind struggles to believe it. John 3:16, read the simplicity and beauty of sacrifice and eternal [b]secure salvation.[/b]

Read it as you may.... So what does the term "believe" in that verse mean? Is there not things Jesus told his followers to do beside have faith? You still have not answered my previous questions about the works the Bible says we have to have with faith to gain salvation.
James 2:17, 18. 21, 22, 26 is where it speaks of this.
Still your turn to answer my question on this.

Originally posted by FabianFnas
How do you know what answer I want to hear?
Do you think I want a yes? Or a no?

What I really want to hear is the truth from you. Can you deliver that? I think you cannot.

Think of Math 5:5 before you answer.

So are you meek? Do you post statements to me that are of a meek heart?

Originally posted by galveston75
Ok...I'll make this as simple as it will get. So if you don't like it or understand it or agree with it..this is my very last comment on this silly yes or no circus.
The first and formost point is your question cannot be simple answered with yes or no because no one on this planet is saved in any way shape or form until God gives this at a latter time and on a couple different levels

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



seems pretty clear cut to me.

Originally posted by duecer
Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.



seems pretty clear cut to me.

Yes that is just the first step though. But there are many scriptures that explain that works have to be done also. It's not that there is anything we can actually do to gain salvation because the scriptures make it clear that salvation is a gift.
But when Jesus commanded his followers or Christians to do such things as preach the Good News of the Kingdom earthwide, that was a serious command from him and one a Christian should be doing. And yes it is work and it is a teaching work.

James 2:14 (New King James Version)
14 What does it profit, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can faith save him?

2 Timothy 2:2 (New American Standard Bible)
2 The things (A)which you have heard from me in the presence of (B)many witnesses, (C)entrust these to (D)faithful men who """will be (E)able to teach""" others also.

2 Timothy 2:24 (New Living Translation)
24 A servant of the Lord must not quarrel but must be kind to everyone, """be able to teach""", and be patient with difficult people.

Matthew 24:14 (New Living Translation)
14 And the Good News about the Kingdom """will be preached""" throughout the whole world, so that all nations[a] will hear it; and then the end will come.

Matthew 28:19-20 (New Living Translation)
19 Therefore, """go and make disciples""" of all the nations,[a] baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. 20 """Teach""" these new disciples to obey all the commands I have given you. And be sure of this: I am with you always, even to the end of the age.”

John 9:4 (English Standard Version)
4 We must(A) """"work the works"""" of him who sent me(B) while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work.

Acts 26:20 (English Standard Version)
20 but declared first(A) to those in Damascus,(B) then in Jerusalem and throughout all the region of Judea, and also(C) to the Gentiles, that they should(D) repent and(E) turn to God, """"performing deeds(F) in keeping with their repentance.""""

James 2:26 (English Standard Version)
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from """works""" is dead.

1 Corinthians 3:13 (English Standard Version)
13 (A) each one’s """work"""" will become manifest, for the Day will disclose it, because it will be revealed(B) by fire, and(C) the fire will test what sort of """work""" each one has done.

2 Timothy 3:17 (New King James Version)
17 that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good """work""".

Just a few scriptures that have a common theme..."Work".

So why would we not think it fair that if we are to recieve a gift of life that he would not expect something in return?
And so many religions have not seen the importance of the work Jesus told us to do. Instead they focus on one or two scriptures but ignor all the many others that show what is expected of us.
And again Jesus would not contradict himself by saying "just" faith is all that is needed. Once a person admits that they believe in Jesus and what he is for us, then one needs to learn what is expected of him to continue to show he has that faith Jesus said we must have and there is work one has to do to prove it just as clearly as the early Christians did. Why should we do less?