05 Sep 10
Originally posted by divegeesterExcuse me Rajk......
Salvation has nothing to do with works, good or evil. Is that what you are looking for?
James 2:26 (English Standard Version)
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from """works""" is dead.
How do you justify not seeing what this one scripture is saying? Please don't avoid this question......
05 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75I'm divegeester!
Excuse me Rajk......
James 2:26 (English Standard Version)
26 For as the body apart from the spirit is dead, so also faith apart from """works""" is dead.
How do you justify not seeing what this one scripture is saying? Please don't avoid this question......
Salvation has nothing to do with works - please see the group of scriptures I posted to you previously. Faith that does not lead to a changed life is dead but this is evidence of salvation not salvation itself. We cannot our salvation.
Once again:
For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that [salvation] not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, that no one should boast. (Ephesians 2:8–9)
05 Sep 10
2 edits
Originally posted by divegeesterYes the post was for you.....I just want your comment on this scripture. Please explain what this means.
I'm divegeester!
Salvation has nothing to do with works - please see the group of scriptures I posted to you previously. Faith that does not lead to a changed life is dead but this is evidence of salvation not salvation itself. We cannot our salvation.
Here is another for you to consider...
(2 Peter 3:11-12) . . .what sort of persons ought you to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, awaiting and keeping close in mind the presence of the day of Jehovah. . .
Does this not say works, acts, deeds are very important?
05 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75The Lord demands obedience and Jesus said if you love me you will obey me. However these are post salvation states of existence.
Is it that you can't explain it?
Everything we need for salvation (marked as spiritual regeneration) is complete in the work done at Calvary by Jesus. We are required after that to be obedient and do "good works", but a person cannot lose their salvation because of a lack of works nor even through post salvation sin.
This is what I believe, I trust that is clear.
05 Sep 10
Originally posted by divegeesterThanks..The explination you have is clear to you I guess but it still does not explain what the works are and how important God says they to him.
The Lord demands obedience and Jesus said if you love me you will obey me. However these are post salvation states of existence.
Everything we need for salvation (marked as spiritual regeneration) is complete in the work done at Calvary by Jesus. We are required after that to be obedient and do "good works", but a person cannot lose their salvatio ...[text shortened]... f works nor even through post salvation sin.
This is what I believe, I trust that is clear.
So once a person believes in the event at Calvary and believes it saves them, is it a done deal or is there anything that can make them lose that salvation?
05 Sep 10
Originally posted by divegeesterAnd another example from the Bible is this:
The Lord demands obedience and Jesus said if you love me you will obey me. However these are post salvation states of existence.
Everything we need for salvation (marked as spiritual regeneration) is complete in the work done at Calvary by Jesus. We are required after that to be obedient and do "good works", but a person cannot lose their salvatio ...[text shortened]... f works nor even through post salvation sin.
This is what I believe, I trust that is clear.
(James 2:20-22) . . ."But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? You behold that his faith worked along with his works and by his works his faith was perfected."
Any thoughts?
05 Sep 10
I like this version....
James 2:20-22 (Amplified Bible)
20Are you willing to be shown [proof], you foolish (unproductive, spiritually deficient) fellow, that faith apart from [good] works is inactive and ineffective and worthless?
21Was not our forefather Abraham [shown to be] justified (made acceptable to God) by [his] works when he brought to the altar as an offering his [own] son Isaac?(A)
22You see that [his] faith was cooperating with his works, and [his] faith was completed and reached its supreme expression [when he implemented it] by [good] works.
05 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Yes I completely agree that faith without works is inactive, but salvation itself is by faith alone. This is clearly stated in scripture, you cannot boast of your salvation. You CANNOT lose your salvation this is where we differ. You belong to an organisation that teaches earning your salvation through works, I belong to him because of him and him alone, there is NOTHING I can do to lose my salvation, this is the point of difference not scripture.
And another example from the Bible is this:
(James 2:20-22) . . ."But do you care to know, O empty man, that faith apart from works is inactive? Was not Abraham our father declared righteous by works after he had offered up Isaac his son upon the altar? You behold that his faith worked along with his works and by his works his faith was perfected."
Any thoughts?
PS: I am of course still subject to do good works though only through obedience as there is NO righteousness in them, I'm subject to be disciplined and even according to scripture store up riches in heaven. But salvation itself is FREE and permanent. Perhaps this is clear now.
05 Sep 10
1 edit
Originally posted by divegeesterWow..So if you commit murder your still saved? What if you decide to not follow the Bible or God anymore or decide to become a Buddhist?
Yes I completely agree that faith without works is inactive, but salvation itself is by faith alone. This is clearly stated in scripture, you cannot boast of your salvation. You CANNOT lose your salvation this is where we differ. You belong to an organisation that teaches earning your salvation through works, I belong to him because of him and him al e up riches in heaven. But salvation itself is FREE and permanent. Perhaps this is clear now.
05 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75Did you miss this question?
A question for you.....What work was Jesus most known for during his time on earth.
(Luke 4:43) . . .But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.”
He told us to do that same work, did he not?
05 Sep 10
Originally posted by galveston75What a surprisingly naive question, I'd expect an unbeliever or hardened atheist to ask that, but not someone claiming to know the mercy of God.
Wow..So if you commit murder your still saved? What if you decide to not follow the Bible or God anymore or decide to become a Buddhist?
Don't you ever read the bible in the JWs, or is it just those other additional books you have? Try reading about David who was 'a man after God's heart' who committed murder and adultery after he became king and was dealt with by God in his lifetime. But...go on, tell me King David won't be in heaven and let's finish your childish retaliative argument.
What about Moses who murdered? What about Peter who denied Christ? Every man of God was weak and sinful - what about Adam? The more we converse the more I see a sincere and devote person who has no knowledge of the saving wonderful grace of God experienced through Jesus Christ, the God I know. Your sins are covered past present and future - be freed!
Mercy triumphs over judgment, read it and believe it if you have an ear for it.