addiction is a choice

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
A person that is an alcoholic suffers from alcoholism which is the 'continued excessive or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks'. Surely if they stop using alcohol they are no longer an alcoholic.

It depends on context as to whether alcoholism refers just to abuse or whether it refers to the disease. The disease alcoholism (that can be 'suffered from' ) is not excessive use of alcoholic drinks, but rather the compulsive part and as long as the compulsions remain, the person has alcoholism and is an alcoholic whether they consume alcohol or not.
Someone who goes on a drinking binge but does not become addicted, does not have alcoholism the disease. Some people may call such a person an alcoholic, but the term doesn't fit well in that instance.

'Addiction' is not ambiguous in meaning. Addiction clearly refers to the compulsive part and not the activity. Someone is addicted for as long as they have compulsions.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
A person that is an alcoholic suffers from alcoholism which is the 'continued excessive or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks'. Surely if they stop using alcohol they are no longer an alcoholic.

Your argument breaks down with the question if an alcoholic can successfully drink after a time of abstinence. The answer is likely not.

My uncle ate shrimp his entire life, but at age 54, he had a life threatining incident with shrimp. He could no longer consume it.

The difference here.....he did not crave shrimp. It did not obsess his thoughts.

He would be in a much different situation if he would die if he consumed shrimp, yet craved it every day. Not much of a life.

Originally posted by FMF
I explained my perspective. My perspective is based on knowing people who cannot allow themselves ever to drink alcohol again. I consider them to be alcoholics and so do they (for the most part).

You are welcome to discuss this dictionary or that dictionary. I am more interested in discussing actual people.

By which I mean people whose bodies and minds a ...[text shortened]... allowed their last dose.

I am simply describing my perspective on the reality of alcoholism.

My perspective is based on knowing people who cannot allow themselves ever to drink alcohol again.

So people can choose not to partake of something that they are addicted to, and 'addiction' is thus a choice?

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So people can choose not to partake of something that they are addicted to, and 'addiction' is thus a choice?

Good grief. I already explained what I perceive to be the role of choice with regard to addiction - on this thread, only a day or so ago! What on earth is the matter with you? Do you not read what people post? Do you not remember what you've read? Can you not differentiate between people? 😕

Originally posted by FMF
Good grief. I already explained what I perceive to be the role of choice with regard to addiction - [b]on this thread, only a day or so ago! What on earth is the matter with you? Do you not read what people post? Do you not remember what you've read? Can you not differentiate between people? 😕[/b]

You said, "If one has an addiction, one cannot just choose not to have the condition."

So if alcoholism is the condition of 'continued excessive or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks', then surely what you said (in bold) is not true if a person can choose not to drink again.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
...surely what you said ["If one has an addiction, one cannot just choose not to have the condition."] is not true if a person can choose not to drink again.

Go back and read what I said and stop taking the piss with your clodhopping can't-remember-what-people-said act. It's getting old. One cannot somehow choose not to have the condition (of being addicted ~ which is a very real physical and mental condition), but one can choose to take the necessary steps to recover from it and free oneself from it. Just read what people write.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So if alcoholism is the condition of 'continued excessive or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks'...

When you ran this definition past me less than 2 hours ago, did I accept that it formed part of my perception of what alcoholism actually is, in reality, or did I not accept it? Can you not remember? Or is you replying to a person's post no guarantee that you actually bothered to read it to find out what their view was? 😕

Originally posted by FMF
When you ran this definition past me [b]less than 2 hours ago, did I accept that it formed part of my perception of what alcoholism actually is, in reality, or did I not accept it? Can you not remember? Or is you replying to a person's post no guarantee that you actually bothered to read it to find out what their view was? 😕[/b]

So what makes you think your perception is right and the dictionary is wrong?

Originally posted by chaney3
Your argument breaks down with the question if an alcoholic can successfully drink after a time of abstinence. The answer is likely not.

My uncle ate shrimp his entire life, but at age 54, he had a life threatining incident with shrimp. He could no longer consume it.

The difference here.....he did not crave shrimp. It did not obsess his thoughts.

H ...[text shortened]... nt situation if he would die if he consumed shrimp, yet craved it every day. Not much of a life.

More posts like this one sir.

(Shrimp optional).

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So what makes you think your perception is right and the dictionary is wrong?

It is not the dictionary that is wrong sir, but your five year old understanding of addiction and alcoholism.

Not Ad hominem. Just brutal honestly. (Or, if you prefer, absolute truth).

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
So what makes you think your perception is right and the dictionary is wrong?

The dictionary definition is OK so far as it goes. Why do I think my perception of alcoholism rings truer for me? I'd say it's because of my experience of alcoholics, their alcoholism, seeing some recover, seeing some fail to recover, seeing alcohol kill people, and an all-round real-world-warts and all-adult-life-of-reflection in general.

So, what makes you think that your sticking-to-an-8-word-dictionary-definition-come-what-may while acting like a willfully-maladroit-fingers-in-your-ears-la-la-la-I'm-not-listening-la-la-la dunce-on-an-online-forum perception is better than mine?

I notice you haven't actually engaged or addressed anything that I've said properly, as usual.

Originally posted by Fetchmyjunk
[b]You said, "If one has an addiction, one cannot just choose not to have the condition."

So if alcoholism is the condition of 'continued excessive or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks', then surely what you said (in bold) is not true if a person can choose not to drink again.[/b]

Alcoholism is not simply the 'continued or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks'. An alcoholic has formed an addiction to alcohol. The formation of this addiction involves permanent and irreversible changes in the brain. An addict may never again in their life partake of the substance to which he or she is addicted, but the changes in the brain - the addiction - will never go away. For a non-alcoholic, choosing to not drink alcohol is a simple choice. For an alcoholic, it is an act which requires enormous and continued effort, particularly in a society such as ours where the casual use of alcohol as a recreational drug is rampant in the extreme. Your OP, that addiction is a choice, is, essentially, true, in that one chooses to consume the substance to which becomes addicted. At and beyond the point of addiction, however, the element of choice may be all-but removed. One cannot choose to become un-addicted. It's a bit like jumping off a cliff. You choose to do it, but once you've jumped, you can't choose to not do it. Furthermore, there is very good evidence to suggest that some people are much more prone to forming an addictive relationship with drugs or alcohol than others. Some people can drink excessively for years and then give up with scarcely a problem. Others can form a much more compelling addiction over a comparatively short period of time and then spend the rest of their life struggling with said dependence.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Alcoholism is not simply the 'continued or compulsive use of alcoholic drinks'. An alcoholic has formed an addiction to alcohol. The formation of this addiction involves permanent and irreversible changes in the brain. An addict may never again in their life partake of the substance to which he or she is addicted, but the changes in the brain - the a ...[text shortened]... vely short period of time and then spend the rest of their life struggling with said dependence.

Well said.

Originally posted by apathist
Are you retarded?

I thought maybe you were going to elucidate to us what you were going through.

Originally posted by FMF
In my experience, once a person suffers from alcoholism, then they will still be alcoholics [or, if you want, 'recovering alcoholic'] 20 years after they had their last drink.

You claimed you know about this: you said "I know quite a few alcoholics and heroin addicts (and chain smokers) that no longer have an addiction, because they stopped using". So you su ...[text shortened]... l-free life they put between the sobriety of the present day and the bad old days of the bottle.

I agree with this post in its entirety. Absolutely spot on.