"atheism is a belief"

Originally posted by chaney3
Not true FMF. Your position is the weakest. Who cares when lemon lime said that he was an atheist?? It seems to me, a mere reader of this discussion, that NO merit will come to your aid, because it is a NON issue.

Lemon lime was an atheist, at some point, and now he is not. Period.

You are creating drama, where no drama is necessary.

You seem to have ability to miss even the most blatantly obvious glaringing slap-you-in-the face contradictions in even your own posts, so it's no surprise that you will miss the nuanced dishonesty of lemon lime's.

Originally posted by lemon lime
You could have read the post (on page 5) I was responding to (on page 10) if you wanted to, so you would have some clue as to what I talking about... but apparently understanding it (in context) didn't serve your purpose.

You made a specific claim on page 10 which sounds false. It would be easy for you to substantiate the claim if it were true.

Originally posted by divegeester
Your claim that posters here entered into a flood of accusations that you were a liar declaring yourself an atheist, is simply not credible. Ive followed a lot of your threads and posts and have never seen you say anything of the sort, and even when you have been caught in an outright lie (a couple of times at least), even then it is only two or three pe ...[text shortened]... mbership here flooding accusations of dishonesty for someone simply declaring they were atheist.

Wow... you been posting this sort of crappola for a decade? That's amazing! I wonder how people reading this now were 13 years old when you started here, and can see how much you've matured.

keep on trolling

Originally posted by lemon lime
Wow... you been posting this sort of crappola for a decade? That's amazing! I wonder how people reading this now were 13 years old when you started here, and can see how much you've matured.

keep on trolling

I guess if there had been a flood of accusations of lying made against you when you declared your atheism here, I'm sure you would be highly motivated to prove me wrong.

Originally posted by googlefudge

I'd thought having nothing was all that was
required to be an Atheist since they believe in nothing, and give credit to
nothing for everything.

You may have been an atheist, but without any understanding.

Atheists believe all kinds of things. [and not all of them sensible or supportable]

We just don't believe in the existence o ...[text shortened]... est is your perpetual need to equate atheism with science, which we have debunked
many a time.

I have no desire to be insulting, I do have a desire to express my opinion and I hope to do
with undo insults from me to you. I have no desire to get insulted, but having given a lot of
thought to this topic for most of my life now, my understanding and yours are not gong to
line up since we are coming from different perspectives, which it seems you find insulting.

I would also point out to you that has been the very nature of my discussion, we look at
things from a different starting point now. It seems pointing that out, has been insulting?

Originally posted by KellyJay
Well growing up God was not part of my life, didn't think about Him, didn't
reject or accept Him. He really wasn't a part of my life, I take that mean I was
an Atheist by those things I have read here.

I heard about God, but that was about it. Saw people talking about Him on
TV on Sundays, He came up in on special events, but not part of my life.

S ...[text shortened]... d to be an Atheist since they believe in nothing, and give credit to
nothing for everything. 🙂

An interesting post Kelly.

Growing up God wasn't part of my life either. I had some vague notion of his existence (which i never really questioned) but probably lumped him in the same category as Superman and Santa, both of whom i believed in for much longer than i probably should have done. I didn't wake up suddenly one day though to the realisation that Superman wasn't real. As i got older i just naturally became aware of the difference between tv and the real world, fact and fiction. I didn't consciously reject his existence, he just gradually slipped into the realm of make believe. (Age 7 i absolutely believed superman was real, aged 10 i was absolutely certain he was just a comic book character. But there was no eureka moment between the two ages).

The same thing happened with God. 'I didn't consciously reject his existence, he just gradually slipped into the realm of make believe.'

Originally posted by lemon lime
It was the same with me. I didn't have an opinion about God or an afterlife until I was 17 or 18 years old, and that's when I identified myself as an atheist. I actually have no problem with people who say they have been athiests since birth, because they obviously define their own lack or abscence of belief a little differently. A problem I had with most ...[text shortened]... ably did more to drive me away from atheism than most Christians were doing to get my attention.

This is the heart of the issue in my opinion. We view things differently, as I have been
trying to point out. As a Christian now I see God's hand in the universe, before didn't look
for it, and I was living my life without God, I didn't care. That absence of belief about God,
or out right rejection made the universe look different than it does now to me, before there
wasn't any need for a supernatural cause, there wasn't any need for a plan, purpose, or
design in life, there wasn't any right and wrong that couldn't be justified given the right
arguments under the right conditions.

With God all of that changed, now I believe my views are subject a standard I don't create
as I go, I believe the universe works like clock work, because it was designed to do so,
and so on.

I never gave a thought to how it all started while I wasn't a believer in God, but I do not
think I would have accepted everything from nothing. That one I think I would have
just ignored since it demands an answer there isn't one without God it would have made
me think about something I wasn't taking seriously.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have no desire to get insulted, but having given a lot of thought to this topic for most of my life now, my understanding and yours are not gong to line up since we are coming from different perspectives

Can you give some examples of how atheists see and define themselves and their perspectives, that, during the most of your life that you have spent thinking about them, you have come to understand, taken on board, and allowed to influence your perspective?

Or when you say you have "given a lot of thought to this topic for most of [your] life", do you mean that you've always believed the same thing and actually talking to atheists has never had any effect on what you believe about them?

Originally posted by C Hess
It appears so.

Are you sure? There are many of who disagree, some in science some out.
Do you think having the starting place of rejection, or the absence of belief would hide that
from you if God was there?

Originally posted by JerryH
Logically show that the question, "Does God exist?" has no answer?

I'll go one better. "Does the supernatural or any part of it exist?"

If the supernatural exists then it can't be observed and tested in the natural universe. You can't observe and test what does not obey the laws of nature. So the answer to the question is not in the natural universe. ...[text shortened]... lse to look. There is no answer to be found. Better to spend our time on questions with answers.

No I disagree, I actually think it does exist, but we cannot prove it. Only the supernatural
can, which is very reasonable given our lives. We cannot force another into believing, if
we could others could force us to reject our beliefs. So we are left with seeking the truth on
our own honestly or not in the hopes God does enlighten us.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
An interesting post Kelly.

Growing up God wasn't part of my life either. I had some vague notion of his existence (which i never really questioned) but probably lumped him in the same category as Superman and Santa, both of whom i believed in for much longer than i probably should have done. I didn't wake up suddenly one day though to the realisat ...[text shortened]... n't consciously reject his existence, he just gradually slipped into the realm of make believe.'

I felt God's calling on me long before I became a Christian, there wasn't a group or place
where I was going that were trying to get me to come over to the Light, except a Mormon
he was the only one actively sharing with me over a long period of time, I rejected his
message but understood he was as real as it gets for someone to live out his faith.

I got myself into some serious trouble over things I was doing that should have gotten me
into some serious trouble, and prayed "God get me out of this and I'll serve you."
Something strange happen and all of my troubles vanished. I went to church one
weekend and made the pledge, than gave it up Monday when my friends came around.
Except from that point on I started talking to God, after a few years I became a Christian.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I have no desire to be insulting, I do have a desire to express my opinion and I hope to do
with undo insults from me to you. I have no desire to get insulted, but having given a lot of
thought to this topic for most of my life now, my understanding and yours are not gong to
line up since we are coming from different perspectives, which it seems you find ...[text shortened]... at
things from a different starting point now. It seems pointing that out, has been insulting?

The problem is not that we disagree about seeing the world differently.

The problem is you insisting that we view the world through our atheism.

That is you making false assertions about how we view the world.

And then you ignoring all our efforts to explain to you why you are wrong.


I have a completely different world view to yours, I view the world through a scientific lens,
and you have no clue what science is or how it works. We are completely different.

But that scientific lens is what makes me an atheist, I don't have that lens because I
am an atheist, I am an atheist because of that lens.

Which is why your accusation that I/we view the world through an 'atheist lens/prism' is
both wrong, and as you keep insisting on knowing how we/I think, insulting.

Originally posted by googlefudge
The problem is not that we disagree about seeing the world differently.

The problem is you insisting that we view the world through our atheism.

That is you making false assertions about how we view the world.

And then you ignoring all our efforts to explain to you why you are wrong.


I have a completely different world view to yours, I view ...[text shortened]... ist lens/prism' is
both wrong, and as you keep insisting on knowing how we/I think, insulting.

I could be wrong, but if you are an Atheist, than that is your view point on how you look at
things is it not? You don't look at the world as if you were a Christian while you are an
Atheist do you?

Originally posted by FMF
Can you give some examples of how atheists see and define themselves and their perspectives, that, during the most of your life that you have spent thinking about them, you have come to understand, taken on board, and allowed to influence your perspective?

Or when you say you have "given a lot of thought to this topic for most of [your] life", do you mean th ...[text shortened]... thing and actually talking to atheists has never had any effect on what you believe about them?

Unfortunately, like me, you have not benefited from the "august love-in" - in terms of an amnesty from KellJay's rudeness.

Originally posted by KellyJay
I could be wrong, but if you are an Atheist, than that is your view point on how you look at
things is it not? You don't look at the world as if you were a Christian while you are an
Atheist do you?

I could be wrong, but if you are an Atheist, than that is your view point on how you look at
things is it not?

NO, no it's not. That is what I/we are trying to get through to you.

EDIT:

You don't look at the world as if you were a Christian while you are an
Atheist do you?

No, I don't look at the world as a Christian, I look at the world as a secular humanist and through the
eye's of science.

NOT atheism.

If I came to believe that your god did exist, I would cease to be an atheist because I would no longer
lack a belief that a god existed.

I would not however be a Christian, I would STILL be a secular humanist and view the world through the
eye's of science.