Atheist Delusion

Originally posted by josephw
That's only an assertion. There's no evidence to support it.

Is it not an 'assertion' that the 'Christian God' created the universe? (As opposed to a Hindu or Greek God). What verifiable evidence do you have that your specific God is the creator of everything, and on which you base your evidence for his existence? - Please note, as an atheist I do not recognise your bible as such evidence.

And to repeat again, in the hope that repetition sinks in, I do not 'know' God exists. As an atheist I am as sincere and as certain as I can be that there is no God. This is not a lie or a delusion. It is based on rational and truthful reflection. This honesty stretches as far as to say I don't have all the answers, and that i find your answers thoroughly unconvincing and without evidence. Pointing at a tree and saying '"Aha! conclusive evidence my particular God exists" is ill considered.

Originally posted by josephw
That's silly. Everyone knows the universe hasn't always been here in it's current form.

I made no assertion about the universe's "current form". Address the assertion that I made. Where is your proof that it is not true? And claiming "everyone knows" something is not proof of anything.

Originally posted by FMF
I made no assertion about the universe's "current form". Address the assertion that I made. Where is your proof that it is not true? And claiming "everyone knows" something is not proof of anything.

Agreed.

Millions of Jainists for example believe the universe has always existed, and modern science has put forward a number of interesting theories about the eternal nature of the universe (which would of course render Joe's God redundant).

Originally posted by josephw
Only in your mind. 😉

And your mind too. You are just lying to yourself if you don't acknowledge it.

It's false until proven true.
Your grasp of logic is sadly lacking.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Is it not an 'assertion' that the 'Christian God' created the universe? (As opposed to a Hindu or Greek God). What verifiable evidence do you have that your specific God is the creator of everything, and on which you base your evidence for his existence? - Please note, as an atheist I do not recognise your bible as such evidence.

And to repeat aga ...[text shortened]... ing at a tree and saying '"Aha! conclusive evidence my particular God exists" is ill considered.

"Is it not an 'assertion' that the 'Christian God' created the universe? (As opposed to a Hindu or Greek God)."

First of all I didn't mention the Christian God. Secondly the Hindu's and Greek's have many gods. Which of them do you suppose is responsible for creation? None? Of course.

" What verifiable evidence do you have that your specific God is the creator of everything, and on which you base your evidence for his existence?"

There is one God, so it would be Him that created everything. Is that specific enough?

Apparently your's and the other's understanding of the universe is so limited that you have a certain cognitive inability to see it as evidence for a creator. No doubt you'll see that as an insult to your intelligence, but that's not what I mean.

What I mean is is that the very existence of the universe is the declaration of a creator, and that you can't visualize that as reality means you are spiritually blind. No doubt you'll see that as an insult as well.

"- Please note, as an atheist I do not recognise your bible as such evidence."

You will beyond any shadow of a doubt, because one day you will come face to face with your maker.

"And to repeat again, in the hope that repetition sinks in, I do not 'know' God exists."

No need to keep repeating it, you've already convinced yourself there is no God without a shred of evidence in the face of all the evidence to the contrary.

"As an atheist I am as sincere and as certain as I can be that there is no God."

How certain is that?

"This is not a lie or a delusion."

And if it were a delusion would you know whether it's a lie or not?

" It is based on rational and truthful reflection."

Your sincerity isn't in question.

"This honesty stretches as far as to say I don't have all the answers,.."

Then consider also that you don't have all the right questions either.

"...and that i find your answers thoroughly unconvincing and without evidence."

Good. It's not my answers that should be thoroughly convincing, but the evidence speaks for itself. It's just too simple. The evidence speaks for a creator, not against. There is no evidence that a creator doesn't exists.

"Pointing at a tree and saying '"Aha! conclusive evidence my particular God exists" is ill considered."

Think so? Try pointing at a tree and saying, "Aha! conclusive evidence there is no God." 🙄

Originally posted by josephw
[b]"Is it not an 'assertion' that the 'Christian God' created the universe? (As opposed to a Hindu or Greek God)."

First of all I didn't mention the Christian God. Secondly the Hindu's and Greek's have many gods. Which of them do you suppose is responsible for creation? None? Of course.

" What verifiable evidence do you have that your specific G ...[text shortened]... ]

Think so? Try pointing at a tree and saying, "Aha! conclusive evidence there is no God." 🙄

" Secondly the Hindu's and Greek's have many gods. Which of them do you suppose is responsible for creation? None? Of course."

Hinduism has 3 Gods responsible for creation; Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. (You really do know nothing outside of your little bubble).

Creation is no less evidence for the existence of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva than it is for the Christian God. You get that right? Unless you can evidence an exclusive link between your version of God and creation you have nothing,...nada.

Edit: Argument lost. Fetch your coat and try not to insult anybody on the way out..

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
[b]" Secondly the Hindu's and Greek's have many gods. Which of them do you suppose is responsible for creation? None? Of course."

Hinduism has 3 Gods responsible for creation; Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva. (You really do know nothing outside of your little bubble).

Creation is no less evidence for the existence of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva than ...[text shortened]... ,...nada.

Edit: Argument lost. Fetch your coat and try not to insult anybody on the way out..[/b]

Do you actually believe you've won the argument?

Why are you even arguing? Just to win an argument because you're so cocksure of yourself that you exist without a creator?

No problem Ghost. In spite of what you think I enjoyed the debate. Too bad you and the others took personal offense. None was intended.

Adios Amigos

Originally posted by josephw
Too bad you and the others took personal offense. None was intended.

Adios Amigos

On the contrary, I think you came to this "debate" with nothing more imaginative or novel than the intent to cause "personal offence" in a most feeble and dreary way. What I see is your stuff about people with different beliefs from you supposedly being "dishonest" having a "mental disorder", and having "disturbed minds", but I don't see any substance to your assertion. Indeed, you have dodged the attempts there have been to engage you in debate.

Originally posted by josephw
Why are you even arguing? Just to win an argument because you're so cocksure of yourself...

Oh the irony (yet again).

Originally posted by josephw
Do you actually believe you've won the argument?

Why are you even arguing? Just to win an argument because you're so cocksure of yourself that you exist without a creator?

No problem Ghost. In spite of what you think I enjoyed the debate. Too bad you and the others took personal offense. None was intended.

Adios Amigos

He called you out on your ignorance about Hinduism. He was right about the Hindus having gods responsible for creation. (not just creation of the universe, but creation and 'change' AND resurrection of the spiritual 'condition' )

I don't know why you guys want to win points here at spirituality. That is definitely NOT in the spirit of spirituality. Spirituality is not a game, whereas , in contrast, our world (and for all we know our universe) is one based on war, games and competition. If you want to know about the spiritual realms, you'll have to understand a different mode of operating.

Originally posted by FMF
On the contrary, I think you came to this "debate" with nothing more imaginative or novel than the intent to cause "personal offence" in a most feeble and dreary way. What I see is your stuff about people with different beliefs from you supposedly being "dishonest" having a "mental disorder", and having "disturbed minds", but I don't see any substance to your assertion. Indeed, you have dodged the attempts there have been to engage you in debate.

"I think you came to this "debate" with nothing more imaginative or novel than the intent to cause "personal offence"..."

You thought wrong, and that's offensive, but I'm not personally offended.

Originally posted by karoly aczel
He called you out on your ignorance about Hinduism. He was right about the Hindus having gods responsible for creation. (not just creation of the universe, but creation and 'change' AND resurrection of the spiritual 'condition' )

I don't know why you guys want to win points here at spirituality. That is definitely NOT in the spirit of spirituality. S ...[text shortened]... ant to know about the spiritual realms, you'll have to understand a different mode of operating.

"He called you out on your ignorance about Hinduism."

Or so you and Ghost think.

As to the rest of your post, I don't need a lecture from you.

If you think I'm here to "win points", then you have a shallow concept of what this debate is really all about, and your opinion about my motive for being here is without merit.

"If you want to know about the spiritual realms,.."

Like, you're an authority? Gag me with a pitchfork.

Originally posted by josephw
If you think I'm here to "win points", then you have a shallow concept of what this debate is really all about, and your opinion about my motive for being here is without merit.

This is a bit rich coming from you ~ in light of this nadir-esque thread of yours.

Originally posted by FMF
This is a bit rich coming from you ~ in light of this nadir-esque thread of yours.

We can always count on you.

Originally posted by josephw
We can always count on you.

Your thread appears to amount to you claiming that simply calling people who have different beliefs from you "mentally disturbed" makes for "an honest and open debate" and that your name-calling assertions amount to an "argument".

And yet, you accuse people who have tried to engage you and salvage something from this train wreck of a 'thought exercise' (if it can be called so grand a thing) of having "a shallow concept of what this debate is really all about". It's as if you actually think you have brought something "deep" to the table here. But surely you don't think you have?