Atheist Delusion

Originally posted by KellyJay
Okay if you can not come up with a viable alternative than what have you to complain about?

Also don't know how everything came into existence. Problem is, I don't view your belief as 'viable' either. Me not knowing the square root of 123.3456 doesn't make your answer of 7 any more credible. It really doesn't.

And Joe stating that the universe having always existed is defying reason 'because there's no way of knowing that except by personal experience' also shoots his whole creation theory in the foot, unless of course he was there in person to witness it.

Please provide viable logic anyone that an eternal uncreated universe is impossible, but an eternal uncreated creator is the only logical answer.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
Also don't know how everything came into existence. Problem is, I don't view your belief as 'viable' either. Me not knowing the square root of 123.3456 doesn't make your answer of 7 any more credible. It really doesn't.

And Joe stating that the universe having always existed is defying reason 'because there's no way of knowing that except by perso ...[text shortened]... l uncreated universe is impossible, but an eternal uncreated creator is the only logical answer.

You can throw out the 2nd law of thermodynamics if eternal time does not wind down even the massive universe.

What is it about a eternal Creator besides you don't like the idea of one, that makes one a non-viable option?

There is NO possible way everything came from nothing, nothing produces nothing but nothing.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You can throw out the 2nd law of thermodynamics if eternal time does not wind down even the massive universe.

What is it about a eternal Creator besides you don't like the idea of one, that makes one a non-viable option?

There is NO possible way everything came from nothing, nothing produces nothing but nothing.

"What is it about a eternal Creator besides you don't like the idea of one, that makes one a non-viable option?"

It is not a question of 'not liking' the idea. I simply don't believe it.

Originally posted by KellyJay
There is NO possible way everything came from nothing, nothing produces nothing but nothing.

This is really a most monstrously arrogant statement and nothing more than a guess on your part. You don't know this, you can't know this. Your (and indeed, human) experience of the universe is insignificantly tiny. Just because you can't imagine something doesn't make it a fact. You are pretending knowledge that you simply do not have.

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
"What is it about a eternal Creator besides you don't like the idea of one, that makes one a non-viable option?"

It is not a question of 'not liking' the idea. I simply don't believe it.

You don't believe, so a creator isn't a viable option for you. If a creator is the only answer any can come up with, you believe someone will at sometime will come up with something else. That hope gives you breathing room to avoid acknowledging the universe is evidence for something beyond the natural, to cause all things.

Originally posted by josephw
The only rational answer to the question of the origin of the universe is that it was created from nothing by an omniscient creator.

Acknowledging a creator settles the mind and generates a tranquil and peaceful soul.

So you feel more comfortable lying to yourself than admitting ignorance. Fine. Just stop trying to pretend that is rational. It isn't.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Why compare something everyone dates with someone who is eternal?

Why make false claims to support your argument?
I am very sure that you are very well aware that posters have suggested an eternal universe. So why say 'everyone dates' when you know full well that simply isn't true?

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
This is really a most monstrously arrogant statement and nothing more than a guess on your part. You don't know this, you can't know this. Your (and indeed, human) experience of the universe is insignificantly tiny. Just because you can't imagine something doesn't make it a fact. You are pretending knowledge that you simply do not have.

Give any possible explanation!
I have stated factually nothing can produce anything other than nothing. If saying that is arrogant so be it!

You can't come up with any explanation out side of you reject it because, you have not given a reason to reject anything.

Originally posted by KellyJay
You don't believe, so a creator isn't a viable option for you. If a creator is the only answer any can come up with, you believe someone will at sometime will come up with something else. That hope gives you breathing room to avoid acknowledging the universe is evidence for something beyond the natural, to cause all things.

A creator is the only answer people can come up with?!

What people? Your people?

Originally posted by Ghost of a Duke
A creator is the only answer people can come up with?!

What people? Your people?

Go through the whole human race, have you found any that have come up with how
everything came into being? If there was a time where it came into being, than what
happen? Your problem is you unlike our dear fictional detective Sherlok Homes cannot
deal with, "... when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however
improbable, must be the truth?" Since we know nothing produces nothing and nothing
else, something other than our natural universe must be the cause, it did not create
itself if it wasn't always here, and it couldn't be here forever since it would wind down
given eternal time.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
This is really a most monstrously arrogant statement and nothing more than a guess on your part. You don't know this, you can't know this. Your (and indeed, human) experience of the universe is insignificantly tiny. Just because you can't imagine something doesn't make it a fact. You are pretending knowledge that you simply do not have.

Can you even define nothing without giving it some shape or form, that isn't there, since it
is nothing? Nothing has no shape or form, because if it did, it wouldn't be nothing!

What could change in nothing? Anything that can change requires a state of being, a
state of being is not nothing. You could not get hotter or colder, if there was heat that
would not be nothing, you could have gravity, that would be something. Pretending that
nothing could produce anything, is a joke, but feel free to explain how nothing is really
responsible for everything....I will await your long silence since you will not be able to.

You should think these things out before actually accusing someone of being monstrously
arrogant.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Give any possible explanation!
I have stated factually nothing can produce anything other than nothing. If saying that is arrogant so be it!

You can't come up with any explanation out side of you reject it because, you have not given a reason to reject anything.

One possible explanation: there may still be nothing, the universe we observe may be balanced by a universe which is in some way negative to our positive, so that when combined they come to nothing. Our current situation may be nothing more than a fluctuation in nothing, without cause or purpose.

You have not stated 'factually' that nothing can produce anything other than nothing. You have stated it, and you may believe it, but it is not a fact.

Originally posted by KellyJay
Can you even define nothing without giving it some shape or form, that isn't there, since it
is nothing? Nothing has no shape or form, because if it did, it wouldn't be nothing!

What could change in nothing? Anything that can change requires a state of being, a
state of being is not nothing. You could not get hotter or colder, if there was heat that
w ...[text shortened]... u should think these things out before actually accusing someone of being monstrously
arrogant.

You very silly person, I have considered these things for years, and discussed them with far cleverer people than you, both theist and atheist. The arrogance redolent in your and josephw's posting is that of ignorance. If you knew more, you would realise how little you actually do know.

Originally posted by JS357
Simple logic. If that which exists is evidence of a creator of that which exists, then the existence of a creator is evidence of a creator of that creator. This leads to an infinite regress.

The problem is that the supernatural defies logic and eventually necessitates an appeal to mystery. Either that, or an admission that what exists is not evidence of a c ...[text shortened]... latter admission is not, by any stretch, an argument for or against the existence of a creator.

Your logic leads to the regression of logic.

The assertion that what exists is evidence for a creator isn't grounds for asserting that a logic exists that a creator created a creator.

That isn't simple logic, it's mind-numbingly redundant delusional irrationality.

Here's another one for you. The supernatural, or spiritual, is the basis of logic, not the defiance of it.

Originally posted by avalanchethecat
Ah, so you think that because you can't comprehend how the universe came into being without a creator, there must be a creator? Well that's an interesting insight into your psyche, but it's certainly not a logical argument.

I didn't say that twist-a-cat. You naysayers are all the same. You either don't understand plain English, or you intentionally misrepresent the meaning and intent of what was said so as to avoid reality.

Now I'm going to go put down a few beers and a couple of shots of whiskey, and when I come back maybe I'll be able to cipher out your gibberish, or at least have more patience with it.