02 Nov 20
@kevcvs57 saidFor sure, they hate each other. It would appear that the evil and sinful will get an opportunity to see the good and righteous enter the Kingdom of God, according to the bible. But all is speculation at this time.
I imagine the Shia snd the Sunnis will be surprised to see each other as well
02 Nov 20
@secondson saidI’ve demonstrated throughly in this forum, on several occasions, how and why there is not a literal hell and therefore no eternal suffering. Actually that’s not difficult to do.
Obviously you don't know one way or the other since that is a blatant contradiction of what God has said. You haven't a shred of scriptural evidence to support your notion.
Why do I think everyone lives? Because I believe that the atonement covers all mankind “for Christ died once, for all”. For all, for everyone.
I believe in ultimate sovereignty of God and in his ultimate reconciliation of mankind.
02 Nov 20
@secondson saidYou are too straightjacketed in your thinking as a Christian. There are many passages in the bible which you have cast aside simply because it contradicts your church teachings. This is clearly one of the signs of immaturity.
Obviously you don't know one way or the other since that is a blatant contradiction of what God has said. You haven't a shred of scriptural evidence to support your notion.
Here is another example [one more to your long list of incorrect church doctrines]. The bible and the church teaches that those who died in the flood were all sinful and evil hence God choose not to save them. But Peter says this
By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. (1 Peter 3:19-20 KJV)
Here it seems that Jesus went to preach to those who died in the days of Noah. Surely the idea was to give them a chance to repent and be saved. You do not know how many times Jesus would have done this and still is doing this for those who died.
@divegeester saidYes, I did. If there is a passage which appears to contradict what Jesus said clearly then I take a side, the side of Jesus Christ. There are several reasons why this may happen
You recently admitted to doing this yourself.
- the Law of Moses is not the same as the teachings of Christ
- the knowledge of David, Solomon or the prophets, even their inspired knowledge and writings, is subservient to the teachings of Christ.
- there may be issues in translation and interpretation
- there is the matter of who the writer is addressing.
The words of the bible are not all created equal.
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02 Nov 20
@rajk999 said"If there is a passage which appears to contradict what Jesus said clearly then I take a side, the side of Jesus Christ."
Yes, I did. If there is a passage which appears to contradict what Jesus said clearly then I take a side, the side of Jesus Christ. There are several reasons why this may happen
- the Law of Moses is not the same as the teachings of Christ
- the knowledge of David, Solomon or the prophets, even their inspired knowledge and writings, is subservient to the teachings of Chris ...[text shortened]... the matter of who the writer is addressing.
The words of the bible are not all created equal.
-
In reality there are no contradictions in the Bible. If you perceive what "appears" to be a contradiction, then it is your perception, interpretation and understanding that is askew.
Your excuse- "take the side of Jesus Christ", who, incidentally, affirmed the scriptures throughout, and was Himself the fulfillment of them.
"There are several reasons why this may happen
What you really mean is that your interpretations trump what the Word actually says if it doesn't agree with what you want it to mean.
"- the Law of Moses is not the same as the teachings of Christ"
That is an outright lie. Jesus Himself, and everything He said, was the fulfillment of the law and the prophets.
"- the knowledge of David, Solomon or the prophets, even their inspired knowledge and writings, is subservient to the teachings of Christ."
"Subservient"? That is a witless thing to say. If you had half a mind you'd know that every word is supportive of everything Jesus said. Your mischaracterizations of the meaning and intent of what the Bible says is abhorrent.
"- there may be issues in translation and interpretation"
The "issues" are in you.
"- there is the matter of who the writer is addressing."
Really? Might that be the reader?
"The words of the bible are not all created equal."
A bizarre and discombobulated concept that has no precept.
02 Nov 20
@divegeester saidYour wishful thinking only serves as a demonstration to yourself. You've proven nothing. What you said above cannot be supported by the scriptures.
I’ve demonstrated throughly in this forum, on several occasions, how and why there is not a literal hell and therefore no eternal suffering. Actually that’s not difficult to do.
Why do I think everyone lives? Because I believe that the atonement covers all mankind “for Christ died once, for all”. For all, for everyone.
I believe in ultimate sovereignty of God and in his ultimate reconciliation of mankind.
Revelation 21:6-8
And he said unto me, "It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death".
Those words come straight from the mouth of Jesus Christ.
Answer that. If you can. Prove your belief with the scriptures, without contradiction.
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02 Nov 20
@secondson saidDid Jesus ever use such devices as parables or analogies?
Your wishful thinking only serves as a demonstration to yourself. You've proven nothing. What you said above cannot be supported by the scriptures.
Revelation 21:6-8
And he said unto me, "It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.
He that overcometh shall inherit all thi ...[text shortened]... us Christ.
Answer that. If you can. Prove your belief with the scriptures, without contradiction.
02 Nov 20
@secondson saidMatt 5, is full of contrasts between the Law of Moses and the teachings of Christ. Will give you a sample
"If there is a passage which appears to contradict what Jesus said clearly then I take a side, the side of Jesus Christ."
In reality there are no contradictions in the Bible. If you perceive what "appears" to be a contradiction, then it is your perception, interpretation and understanding that is askew.
Your excuse- "take the side of Jesus Christ", who, inciden ...[text shortened]... ible are not all created equal."[/b]
A bizarre and discombobulated concept that has no precept.
Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. (Matthew 5:37-39 KJV)
The Key is ... BUT I SAY UNTO YOU.
The rest of your post is unadulterated garbage.
03 Nov 20
@rajk999 saidNo it was you taking the OT over the NT in the matter of child discipline. Please don’t go there again.
Yes, I did. If there is a passage which appears to contradict what Jesus said clearly then I take a side, the side of Jesus Christ.
Anyway, one way or another , for whatever reasons, you choose which parts of the bible you prefer. So stop berating others for doing it.
03 Nov 20
1 edit
@secondson saidIn the threads I started on this I backed everything I said up with scripture.
Your wishful thinking only serves as a demonstration to yourself. You've proven nothing. What you said above cannot be supported by the scriptures.
I once started a thread listing a host of reasons covering, scripture, morality, ethic and logic as to why eternal suffering cannot exist.
03 Nov 20
@secondson saidI already have done and in those threads you chose either to not contribute or you just ranted and then left in a huff.
Prove your belief with the scriptures, without contradiction.
If you want to debate me over literalism vs metaphor in the bible again then please start a thread on it and I’ll be happy to take you on again.
“Metaphors” remember those threads???
03 Nov 20
@divegeester saidThe NT is silent on the matter of discipline of children. The OT is clear about what parents should do. You do not like it then thats your problem. You dont seem to like the the idea of hell either, but it is a doctrine clearly preached by Jesus and the Apostles. Again your opinion on this matter does not make it fact. What appears to be wrong is that people will be tormented for eternity in hell. The bible teaches that they will be annihilated or completely destroyed in hell.
No it was you taking the OT over the NT in the matter of child discipline. Please don’t go there again.
Anyway, one way or another , for whatever reasons, you choose which parts of the bible you prefer. So stop berating others for doing it.
Christians on the whole have adopted doctrines which are tainted by the opinions of men. Homosexuality is another such example. Homosexuality is a sin. No amount of BS arguments can change the position of the bible on that matter. Yet many Christians are afraid to come out and say it.