Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Can a lie be proven? Yes or No?

Already asked and answered earlier on this thread. Why are you asking me again?

Originally posted by @fmf
Already asked and answered earlier on this thread. Why are you asking me again?

You have yet to demonstrate how you can prove that someone deliberately mislead people.

FMF: Some lies can be proved to be lies

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Only true if you use my definition and not yours. With your definition it is impossible to prove a lie because the person can simply say it was unintentional. How do you prove that it was intentional if you are not a mind reader?

Using your definition is moot because it is incorrect. You are claiming that "a mistake" and "a lie" are synonyms, when they are not. The fact that some lies can be proved to be lies, while others cannot, does not alter the definition of the word "lie".

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You have yet to demonstrate how you can prove that someone deliberately mislead people.

"Prove" or "demonstrate" to whom? What does it have to do with the meaning of the word "lie"?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Ghost: dj brought up the word - wait, no, I tell a lie - it was in fact FMF.

[1] Ghost did not use the idiom "I tell a lie".

[2] And even if he had, the idiom "I tell a lie" is a turn of phrase used to correct something one has just said. It refers to a mistake and not a "lie" which is an intentional falsehood.

Originally posted by @fmf
"Prove" or "demonstrate" to whom? What does it have to do with the meaning of the word "lie"?

You say lies can be proven, yet according to purely the definition that you are going with they can't be proven. The only way you can conclusively prove a lie is if you take my definition into account.

Originally posted by @fmf
You are completely wrong. A lie is something that misleads, yes true. People can mislead intentionally or unintentionally, yes true. If someone misleads intentionally then it is a lie. If someone misleads unintentionally it is not a lie. "To lie" and "To mislead" are not exact synonyms. The definition of "mislead" is not the same as the definition of "lie". The ...[text shortened]... ed to help convey the meaning of the word "lie" does not mean the two words mean the same thing.

So if people had believed Ghost when he said that I introduced the word, would they be believing a mistake or a lie?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
You say lies can be proven, yet according to purely the definition that you are going with they can't be proven. The only way you can conclusively prove a lie is if you take my definition into account.

The definition of "lie" has nothing whatsoever to do with what you just so happen to think about whether something can be "proved" or not.

Your definition of "lie" is a mistake that I would be surprised.to find any Indonesian teenage undergraduates I've met would make and for them is English is a foreign language.

That you think your definition is better than the real one provides information only about you and your mindset and no information about the actual meaning of the word "lie".

Originally posted by @dj2becker
So if people had believed Ghost when he said that I introduced the word, would they be believing a mistake or a lie?

They would have been unintentionally misled by Ghost of a Duke's mistake. What Ghost of a Duke said was not in any shape or form a "lie".

Originally posted by @fmf
They would have been unintentionally misled by Ghost of a Duke's mistake. What Ghost of a Duke said was not in any shape or form a "lie".

It is incorrect to say that people believed a mistake. It would be correct to say people believed a lie. Regardless of whether the lie was deliberate or not.

Also, how on earth would you know whether people were intentionally or unintentionally mislead?

Originally posted by @fmf
They would have been unintentionally misled by Ghost of a Duke's mistake. What Ghost of a Duke said was not in any shape or form a "lie".

Since it is impossible to know whether or not a lie was deliberate according to you it is never correct to say someone believed a lie?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
It is incorrect to say that people believed a mistake. It would be correct to say people believed a lie. Regardless of whether the lie was deliberate or not.

A lie is a deliberate untruth. An unintentional mistake is not a lie.

Originally posted by @fmf
A lie is a deliberate untruth. An unintentional mistake is not a lie.

How do you determine whether the untruth was deliberate or not?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Since it is impossible to know whether or not a lie was deliberate according to you it is never correct to say someone believed a lie?

Who said it is "impossible to know whether or not a lie was deliberate"? It can't have been me because a lie is a deliberate thing ~ so there is no "whether or not a lie was deliberate" thing. So, that - along with the rest of your question - doesn't make any sense to me. Ask it again in a coherent way.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
'Regression is an unconscious defense mechanism, which causes the temporary or long-term reversion of the ego to an earlier stage of development (instead of handling unacceptable impulses in a more adult manner).'

Sigmund Freud

“Have not I commanded thee? Be strong and of a good courage; be not afraid, neither be thou dismayed: for the Lord thy God is with thee whithersoever thou goest.”

(Joshua 1:9)