Believers, Non-Believers & Morality

Originally posted by @fmf
BUMP for dj2becker.

What do the parents of your students say when you accuse their children of "lying" each time they get a science question wrong on a test you've set them? Come to think of it, what do the children say?

Ghost certainly did not do his homework when he accused me of introducing a word that you had in fact introduced. And this has nothing to do with him getting a question on a test wrong and you know it.

Are you saying deception can only be intentional?

Originally posted by @fmf
He was not lying - and it was not deception - because the untrue statement was not deliberate and was not intended to mislead. If you wanted to use the word "lie" in some sort of idiomatic way, then you should have done so. Instead, you used the word incorrectly in much the same way as might a non-native speaker who was struggling with the idiomatic nuances of ...[text shortened]... s, their parents, and your apparent insistence that errors on their quizzes or tests are "lies"?

https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/deceive

deceive in American
(diˈsiv ; dēsēvˈ; dɪˈsiv ; disēvˈ)
verb transitive
Word forms: deˈceived or deˈceiving
1.
to make (a person) believe what is not true; delude; mislead

mislead is to cause to follow the wrong course or to err in conduct or action, although not always by deliberate deception

Originally posted by @romans1009
[b]For him to claim he has “no notion” of divine law is absurd on its face - especially since he claims to have studied theology. Either he was lying or he expressed himself very poorly. There’s no other alternative.

There is one other alternative.

Your picnic basket is void of sandwiches.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/deceive

deceive in American
(diˈsiv ; dēsēvˈ; dɪˈsiv ; disēvˈ)
verb transitive
Word forms: deˈceived or deˈceiving
1.
to make (a person) believe what is not true; delude; mislead

mislead is to cause to follow the wrong course or to err in conduct or action, although not always by deliberate deception[/b]

What you have written in bold is not in the link you provided.

I’m using my phone so could be missing something.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Ghost certainly did not do his homework when he accused me of introducing a word that you had in fact introduced. And this has nothing to do with him getting a question on a test wrong and you know it

And what about the question I've asked you at least three times, which you have ignored a couple of times, and now dodged?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
The dictionary clearly states that a lie is "something that misleads or deceives." What ghost said was misleading whether or not you are willing to accept it. You resorting to insults because you cannot admit that you are wrong is actually quite amusing.

So, if 'misleading' is a lie, do you accept you were lying when you deliberately mislead people about your 2nd account (something you publicly acknowledged and apologized for? )

Originally posted by @divegeester
What you have written in bold is not in the link you provided.

I’m using my phone so could be missing something.

It is further down, a clarification of 'mislead'.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
mislead is to cause to follow the wrong course or to err in conduct or action, although not always by deliberate deception

An incorrectly positioned signpost could be misleading about a road turning up ahead, and it would almost certainly be a simple error. But it wouldn't be a "lie" would it? Just as Ghost of a Duke's error on page 1 was not a "lie".

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Are you saying deception can only be intentional?

I am saying that, aside from some idiomatic uses, word "lie" - in the way you tried to use it - means a deliberately false or misleading statement - an accusation you are unable to pin on Ghost of a Duke for his error on page 1.

Originally posted by @romans1009
That’s just the booze talking. You know you love us. What would your day be like without the PB&J sandwiches I pack in your knapsack and our hide-and-seek “Where’s Tiger?” game?

There you go, regressing again to your childlike state.

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
So, if 'misleading' is a lie, do you accept you were lying when you deliberately mislead people about your 2nd account (something you publicly acknowledged and apologized for? )

Yes, I have no problem with apologizing when I'm wrong. Everyone has lied at some point, lying is part of our sinful human nature.

Originally posted by @dj2becker
Are you saying deception can only be intentional?

Yes, I do. I think you would have to specify explicitly if was unintentional or accidental, otherwise the word suggests intention and a desired effect. I not that https://simplyphilosophy.org says: "Accidental deception is that kind of deception in which someone is deceived, but there was no intent to deceive. It is morally wrong only if not enough care was taken to avoid deceiving the person addressed".

Originally posted by @fmf
An incorrectly positioned signpost could be misleading about a road turning up ahead, and it would almost certainly be a simple error. But it wouldn't be a "lie" would it? Just as Ghost of a Duke's error on page 1 was not a "lie".

A lie is something that misleads. It's written there in the dictionary. Open your eyes maybe you will see it. Do you think what ghost said was not misleading?

Originally posted by @dj2becker
A lie is something that misleads. It's written there in the dictionary. Open your eyes maybe you will see it. Do you think what ghost said was not misleading?

A "lie" is something untrue stated in order to mislead or deceive. That is not what Ghost of a Duke did on page 1. His error was misleading but that is because what he said was incorrect and not because what he said was a "lie".

Originally posted by @ghost-of-a-duke
There you go, regressing again to your childlike state.

More like needling dive by infantalizing him.