31 Aug 13
Originally posted by galveston75Your use of the word "clearly" in so many of your posts, is clearly a substitute for: "in JW land this is what we believe".
It's just a word that is used in describing the seperating of the waters that once covered the earth before God created man and it is a fair description. The point is it was cleary described the Bible in Genesis when it says "God seperated the waters from the waters" and it was after this seperation that land appeared.
And again....it rained for 40 da ...[text shortened]... louds.
So calling it a covering of water or a canopy of water would not a wrong statement.
Isn't it...
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by galveston75"I wonder how one would react today if God told us to do something that wasn't the normal, out of place and not in agreement with the rest of society?"
Yeah your probably right. I'm sure many came to see him building this crazy looking boat thingy and had many comments about it. I'm sure most thought he was super crazy.
I'm sure it was tuff on him and his family to hear that daily and it shows the faith he had in Jehovah.
I wonder how one would react today if God told us to do something that wasn't the normal, out of place and not in agreement with the rest of society?
I thought I'd repost this question.....
02 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by galveston75Has God ever told you to do something? If yes, can you tell us exactly how he did it and how you know it was God?
"I wonder how one would react today if God told us to do something that wasn't the normal, out of place and not in agreement with the rest of society?"
I thought I'd repost this question.....
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by Rajk999All that God wants us to know is in the Bible. So no he has never talked to me directly as his son is the "word" of his Father and we get God's directions from his son.
Has God ever told you to do something? If yes, can you tell us exactly how he did it and how you know it was God?
02 Sep 13
1 edit
A major problem with the canopy theory
Vardiman11 recognized a major difficulty with the canopy theory. The best canopy model still gives an intolerably high temperature at the surface of the earth.
Rush and Vardiman have attempted a solution,12 but found that they had to drastically reduce the amount of water vapor in the canopy from a rain equivalent of 40 feet (12 meters) to only 20 inches (.5 meters). Further modelling suggested that a maximum of 2 meters (6.5 feet) of water could be held in such a canopy, even if all relevant factors were adjusted to the best possible values to maximize the amount of water stored.13 Such a reduced canopy would not significantly contribute to the 40 days and nights of rain at the beginning of the flood.
Many creation scientists are now either abandoning the water vapor canopy model14 or no longer see any need for such a concept, particularly if other reasonable mechanisms could have supplied the rain.15 In the catastrophic plate tectonics model for the flood,16 volcanic activity associated with the breaking up of the pre-flood ocean floor would have created a linear geyser (like a wall) of superheated steam from the ocean, causing intense global rain.
Nevertheless, whatever the source or mechanism, the scriptural statement about the windows of heaven opening is an apt description of global torrential rain.
A vapor canopy holding more than 7 feet (two meters) of rain would cause the earth’s surface to be intolerably hot, so a vapor canopy could not have been a significant source of the flood waters.
From a google search
Manny
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by galveston75Well failing direct communication from God, we are left to interpret the Bible as we see fit.
All that God wants us to know is in the Bible. So no he has never talked to me directly as his son is the "word" of his Father and we get God's directions from his son.
From past discussions I know you believe that the Watchtower Organisation is Gods representative on earth and they alone possess the Bible truth, and followers of that religion alone will be spared the horrors of Armagedeon.
So lets get straight to the point. Why should we non-JWs believe your take on Bible interpretation when the WTs track record on interpreting Bible prophecy is 100% wrong.
02 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by menace71The bible says nothing about any foolish canopy nonsense. It is a shame that unbelieving outsiders have to tell you bible believers that there was no such thing.
A major problem with the canopy theory
Vardiman11 recognized a major difficulty with the canopy theory. The best canopy model still gives an intolerably high temperature at the surface of the earth.
Rush and Vardiman have attempted a solution,12 but found that they had to drastically reduce the amount of water vapor in the canopy from a rain equivalent of ...[text shortened]... could not have been a significant source of the flood waters.
From a google search
Manny
02 Sep 13
1 edit
Originally posted by Rajk999If you read it states problems with canopy theory. However there is no argument that something was very different about the pre-flood world. They know insects and animals were bigger before the flood (ancient world) and oxgen was in a higher % in the atmosphere. Why did humans live 800+ years? The suns radiation gives the earth and skin a real beatdown !!! There is nothing wrong with wondering and research into the past.
The bible says nothing about any foolish canopy nonsense. It is a shame that unbelieving outsiders have to tell you bible believes that there was no such thing.
Manny
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by Rajk999In your next responce if you could comment on the question I asked that would be appreciated.
Well failing direct communication from God, we are left to interpret the Bible as we see fit.
From past discussions I know you believe that the Watchtower Organisation is Gods representative on earth and they alone possess the Bible truth, and followers of that religion alone will be spared the horrors of Armagedeon.
So lets get straight to the point. ...[text shortened]... on Bible interpretation when the WTs track record on interpreting Bible prophecy is 100% wrong.
But to answer your question first, is no we are not left to interpret the Bible on our own as many here do including yourself. Jesus never taught that and none in those early followers did as they saw fit. Nor did the congregations interpret on their own but the apostles were directly under Jesus teachings and then the elders in their local congregations with the info those apostles "fed" them their spiritual food or guideance.
This spiritual food was a simple direction from Jesus to get it to all his followers.
If one thinks they can learn and grow on their own, they are leaving the plan and arrangment that God set up thru his son first, this is why he is called God's word or spokesman.
Then as with the early congregations it was brought down in a chain of command teaching and this directing which went thru the apostles, then the elders in the congrgations and then to the members of those congregations.
No one did it one there own, ever.
Today the JW's do this exact same type of direction. Jesus who is now in heaven directs all we need to know, follow and learn thru the "faithful and descret slave class" or those who are left of the 144,000 here on earth that he works thru and those in turn direct this info to all the elders in all the congregations and then on to all the members of those congregations.
So if any have issues with this plan of Jesus directing his followers as it is one that is a direct model of what he set up while he was on earth, then one needs to speak to God about this and express their concerns and let him know one does not approve of this direction and way of dispensing the spiritual food we all need to stay strong in this world and to continue to grow spiritually so we can correctly teach others and to fortify our faith in this arrangment especially when so many do not like it and condemn us for this way just as Jesus started himself and told us to continue to do...
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by menace71Good comment....
If you read it states problems with canopy theory. However there is no argument that something was very different about the pre-flood world. They know insects and animals were bigger before the flood (ancient world) and oxgen was in a higher % in the atmosphere. Why did humans live 800+ years? The suns radiation gives the earth and skin a real beatdown !!! There is nothing wrong with wondering and research into the past.
Manny
02 Sep 13
Originally posted by menace71Wondering and research should not lead to conclusions which contradict the Bible. There are many contradictions in saying that there was a canopy. Galveston thinks its just a word but then he sounds like the Catholics who say that Trinity is just a word. Is waht the word means.
If you read it states problems with canopy theory. However there is no argument that something was very different about the pre-flood world. They know insects and animals were bigger before the flood (ancient world) and oxgen was in a higher % in the atmosphere. Why did humans live 800+ years? The suns radiation gives the earth and skin a real beatdown !!! There is nothing wrong with wondering and research into the past.
Manny
Galveston said that the canopy was so thick that it is likely that it blocked out the sun moon and stars and people could not see these for 2000 years. But the Bible said:
Gen 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
How can you use the sun, moon and stars for signs and you cannot even see these?