Born again!

Originally posted by Penguin
So before the flood, the sun, moon and stars were not visible?

As in total darkness? Of course that was not the case but just asking, ya never know...
The bible says that there was a cloud canopy over the entire planet. Seeing how I was not there I have no idea how thick it was, I have no idea what they could or couldn't see. But I live in Washington State and it is cloudy here most of the time. So no with this cloud cover you can't directly see any of those things.
I also have no idea if there were ever breaks in this cloud canopy so who knows if they ever even slightly saw those heavenly objects clearly.
But if it was a continuious cloud cover which I'm guessing it was, at least it did protect humans from the exposure of direct sun light and would have also made plants grow very well as they do here in the NW as apposed to a dry and sunny climate.
Almost a perfect condition for humans to live in it would seem. Maybe something like God would have created for man?

Originally posted by galveston75
Actually your pretty correct here. But the water canopy was above up in the sky in the atmosphere just as a very thick cloud cover could look today.
It would have to be seen with the naked eye just as we see clouds now.
Plus it would have to be visible as it was no doubt a protection from the dangerous rays of the sun and also acted like a green hous ...[text shortened]... ne would have to be able to see this from the earth as it was no doubt a very thick cloud cover.

Going off on a tangent to the point where you start talking foolishness.
Carry on .... tell us more

Originally posted by galveston75
As in total darkness? Of course that was not the case but just asking, ya never know...
The bible says that there was a cloud canopy over the entire planet. Seeing how I was not there I have no idea how thick it was, I have no idea what they could or couldn't see. But I live in Washington State and it is cloudy here most of the time. So no with this cl ...[text shortened]... ion for humans to live in it would seem. Maybe something like God would have created for man?

The Bible says there was a cloud canopy over the entire planet?
Can you provide the reference?

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible condenses several thousands of years of history into a few small paragraphs and you expect it to mention whether or not it rained?

It did not rain in the Garden of Eden when God created the plants and that is all that is certain from a Bible standpoint. There were no humans. Then God made man, man sinned, man was cursed and expelled from the Gar ...[text shortened]... g for 2000 years or so and then the flood. Seems like you are the one making stupid assumptions.

You can make your assumption that there had been clouds and rain shortly after Adam and Eve were made, but there is never any mention of rain again until God caused it to rain continuously for 40 days and nights at the time of the worldwide flood. I doubt that it is possible today for that much water to be stored in the clouds if it had been raining regularly for 1500 years before.

Anyway, there are other clues to the fact that rain and floods may have not been seen before. For example:

By faith Noah, being divinely warned of things not yet seen, moved with godly fear, prepared an ark for the saving of his household, by which he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness which is according to faith.

(Hebrews 11:7 NKJV)

Could one of the things not seen that Noah was warned of by God be the coming rain? I think that is a good assumption in this case. And also if there had been many clouds and rain before, there should have also been rainbows. So the fact that God made the rainbow appearing in clouds as a sign that He would never destroy the earth with a worldwide flood again doesn't make sense, if there had already been many rainbows appearing in the clouds.

I would rather disagree with the JWs on everything. However, the fact that it had probably never rained on the earth until the worldwide flood seems to agree with what the Holy Bible implies to me.

The Instructor

Originally posted by Rajk999
The Bible says there was a cloud canopy over the entire planet?
Can you provide the reference?

I don't believe there was a cloud canopy over the earth because that implies that men did not see the Sun, moon, and stars until after the worldwide flood. I believe the waters above were held there by some other method that allowed man to see the heavens through those waters. It is called a firmament in the King's James Version of the Holy Bible.

The Instructor

Originally posted by RJHinds
I don't believe there was a cloud canopy over the earth because that implies that men did not see the Sun, moon, and stars until after the worldwide flood. I believe the waters above were held there by some other method that allowed man to see the heavens through those waters. It is called a firmament in the King's James Version of the Holy Bible.

The Instructor

Thanks for your opinion but that was a specific question to Galveston. He said that the 'BIBLE SAID THAT ... etc..' He did not say 'I think that there was a cloud canopy etc etc'. I interested in where the Bible said that.

Originally posted by RJHinds
..Could one of the things not seen that Noah was warned of by God be the coming rain? .

Nope .. that makes no sense but it serves as an illustration of the danger of making conclusions and then trying scrape up proof to fit the conclusion. Analyse the data first before coming to conclusions.

If God were to warn you of a meteor hitting the earth that would not move you to fear because you know that these hit the earth all the time. If however, you were warned of one the size of Brazil hitting the earth and it would wipe out all life, then that would be 'things not seen' and would 'move you to fear'. Normal rain is not something to fear but its the destruction that God told Noah about which was 'not seen'.

Originally posted by galveston75
As in total darkness? Of course that was not the case but just asking, ya never know...
The bible says that there was a cloud canopy over the entire planet. Seeing how I was not there I have no idea how thick it was, I have no idea what they could or couldn't see. But I live in Washington State and it is cloudy here most of the time. So no with this cl ion for humans to live in it would seem. Maybe something like God would have created for man?

You live in WS and it is cloudy there most of the time?
And you call that 'a perfect condition for humans to live in' ?

I live in the tropics on an island in the Caribbean and the sky is blue most of the time with puffs of white clouds floating around, the sea is a rich turquoise, and the vegetation could not be greener.

Plus not being able to see the sun, moon and stars .. is a good thing in your opinion ? You missing out on life pal .. 🙂

God would have created something like WS for Adam and Eve? So WS is like the Garden of Eden ... are you for real??

Originally posted by Rajk999
You live in WS and it is cloudy there most of the time?
And you call that 'a perfect condition for humans to live in' ?

I live in the tropics on an island in the Caribbean and the sky is blue most of the time with puffs of white clouds floating around, the sea is a rich turquoise, and the vegetation could not be greener.

Plus not being able to see th ...[text shortened]... ed something like WS for Adam and Eve? So WS is like the Garden of Eden ... are you for real??

First I live in the NW, not the SW.
I agree you know doubt live in a beautiful place. That is until a hurricane comes along.
If the planet were covered with a cloud canopy there would be no weather extreems and in fact the planet would experiance a very moderate temp range perfect for life to live in all areas. Remember they've fouind green grass and other troplical vegetation in the mouths of dead frozen animals in the northern latitudes where it could never grow now?
Only a green house affect could cause this.

Another reason is that the Bible never said this water canopy was done away with until it was opened up for the flood waters to come from the sky.


Genesis 7:11

Living Bible (TLB)


10-12 One week later, when Noah was 600 years, two months, and seventeen days old, the rain came down in mighty torrents from the sky, and the subterranean waters burst forth upon the earth for forty days and nights.


You do catch the obvious fact that the "rain came down in torrents" for ( 40 ) days? Not a day, not a week but for almost a month and a half it rained in torrents.
There is no way by the streach of anyones imagination that the amount of rain that came down for those ( 40 ) days came from the type of cloud cover the earth has now. Not even a thousand hurricanes could produce something even close to what that cloud canopy had in it.
Dude, get serious..... all the evidence cleary says that canopy of water was still up in the atmosphere up to the day the flood started.
You are arguing just as some do who don't believe in the flood at all and say there is no way the amount of water that would have been needed to flood the earth came from our atmosphere and that makes the flood story not true.

Originally posted by galveston75
First I live in the NW, not the SW.
I agree you know doubt live in a beautiful place. That is until a hurricane comes along.
If the planet were covered with a cloud canopy there would be no weather extreems and in fact the planet would experiance a very moderate temp range perfect for life to live in all areas. Remember they've fouind green grass an ...[text shortened]... needed to flood the earth came from our atmosphere and that makes the flood story not true.

Where is the verse with the water canopy covering the whole planet? If there is none just say that.

Originally posted by Rajk999
Where is the verse with the water canopy covering the whole planet? If there is none just say that.

Gen 1:6....


Genesis 1:6

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


6 And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'


Now you show me a scripture that says it somehow disappeared in the time period from this seperation of the waters and the flood of Noah's day?

Also you did not address my comments in my last post as I see no responce or arguments?

Originally posted by galveston75
Gen 1:6....


Genesis 1:6

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


6 And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'


Now you show me a scripture that says it somehow disappeared in the time period from this seperation of the waters and the flood of Noah's day?

Also you did not address my comments in my last post as I see no responce or arguments?

Here is a good website for you.

http://www.goodtherapy.org/find-psychiatrists.html

Have you head examined. You need professional help.

Originally posted by galveston75
Gen 1:6....


Genesis 1:6

Young's Literal Translation (YLT)


6 And God saith, `Let an expanse be in the midst of the waters, and let it be separating between waters and waters.'


Now you show me a scripture that says it somehow disappeared in the time period from this seperation of the waters and the flood of Noah's day?

Also you did not address my comments in my last post as I see no responce or arguments?

This is a good example of one thing many Christians do. They point to some obscure verse that kinda says something about what they claim it says, and say "there it is! God said it! You can believe what you want, but I'll believe God, thank you very much."

Originally posted by Rajk999
Nope .. that makes no sense but it serves as an illustration of the danger of making conclusions and then trying scrape up proof to fit the conclusion. Analyse the data first before coming to conclusions.

If God were to warn you of a meteor hitting the earth that would not move you to fear because you know that these hit the earth all the time. If however t something to fear but its the destruction that God told Noah about which was 'not seen'.

Continuous rain for 40 days and nights is not normal rain even today. But if water had never fallen on earth from the heavens before, then that would take faith to believe, would it not?

The Instructor

Originally posted by Suzianne
This is a good example of one thing many Christians do. They point to some obscure verse that kinda says something about what they claim it says, and say "there it is! God said it! You can believe what you want, but I'll believe God, thank you very much."

What is written in the Bible is from God. So God said it. If one cannot use the evidence in the Bible even if by only a couple scriptures then one doesn't see it. Not my fault.
It seems your the one with Raj that is saying the canopy was no longer there. Where is the evidence where the bibles says it was now gone before the flood and if it were gone, where did all the water come from that the Bible cleary says came from heaven?