@sonship saidI’m interested in your cultish church creed. I’ll be writing to your church leadership and you will be quoted.
@divegeester
I don’t mean anything by it; it’s whatever you and your church leaders tell me it is.
You realize that that doesn't make much sense, I hope.
So you have an obsessive dislike for the word?
But if I ask you whether both the Word is God and the God with whom the word WAS is God in John 1:1 you go silent.
Is that beca ...[text shortened]... that you are afraid to admit that the Word and God in John 1:1 are both the unique one God ?
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If you don’t believe in the trinity, you can’t be one of us.
That’s what the statement in the OP is saying.
It’s a cult, plain and simple.
You are hunting to be rejected.
You are eager to be excluded.
The one hunting for exclusion is you. You are arguing that you do not want to be a part of the body of believers in the Father - Son and Holy Spirit as God.
That is YOUR searching for separation.
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Are you sure about not believing in the unique Triune God ?
John 1:1,2
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God."
Do you believe that the Word and God there are One God or more than one God?
Just answer:
The Word and God Whom He is and WITH Whom He is is one God.
OR
The Word and God Whom He is and WITH Whom He is is TWO Gods.
Which statement more represents your belief ?
IF YOU ARE SILENT ... what shall I think except that you are ashamed to realize that you believe like the universal church that God is a "UNE" of the Father and the Son?
There is a unique UNE-NESS - ONENESS in the Father, the Son, and the Eternal Spirit.
You don't have to say Triune God if you don't want. But WHAT do you have faith in as your Savior and Lord and God ?
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16 Mar 19
1 edit
I’ll be writing to your church leadership and you will be quoted.
Go ahead. And your letter will be read. And I think it will be read by a number of people. Let me know what they say.
And be honest and provide a way for them to observe ALL that I wrote in this thread. We have a lot of experience with critics taking quotes in isolation.
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The concept of the Trinity is a later addition.
So it is a latter addition - the concept that the Word was with God and was God?
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
He was in the beginning with God." (The Gospel According to John - 1:1,2)
That concept was an addition amended to the original NT Greek text?
If so how would you prove that to me?
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I want you all to realize the stubborness of Divegeester.
When directly answered he may ask the same thing again for no reason.
Sonship, do you agree with the statement of belief from your church’s website which I’ve posted in my OP?- 29 Nov '18 22:57
My reply
I agree. I don't exploit it the way I think you do to make your points.
- 29 Nov '18 23:00
But Divegeester simply asks it again as if not answered.
Simple question Sonship, do you agree with the statement of belief from your church’s website which I’ve posted in my OP?
- 29 Nov '18 23:04
Since then I have lost count of the number of times he obsessively repeats his question in monotony.
16 Mar 19
@ghost-of-a-duke saidTreading in deep water Ghost. Atheists also deny the existence of a creator.
Even atheists know that the Trinity isn't biblical. Yes, that is significant.
You also claim, as I read in another post of yours, that you think you know more about what's in the Bible than most Christians.
The thing that's so odd to me is that no matter how many times is provide proof texts for the triune Godhead no one in these forums seems able to refute them, much less even engage.
17 Mar 19
@secondson saidAccording to your belief and understanding can you tell me this please; If a person rejects the teaching of the triune God will they be in any way precluded from salvation, on this specific point alone?
Treading in deep water Ghost. Atheists also deny the existence of a creator.
You also claim, as I read in another post of yours, that you think you know more about what's in the Bible than most Christians.
The thing that's so odd to me is that no matter how many times is provide proof texts for the triune Godhead no one in these forums seems able to refute them, much less even engage.
17 Mar 19
@sonship saidI’m a Christian sonship, I have been for 30 odd years.
@divegeester
You are hunting to be rejected.
You are eager to be excluded.
The one hunting for exclusion is you. You are arguing that you do not want to be a part of the body of believers in the Father - Son and Holy Spirit as God.
That is YOUR searching for separation.
17 Mar 19
In the OP of this thread is a statement by the leadership of the group The Local Churches. The statement clearly and unequivocally states that in order to be saved one “MUST” accept the teaching of the “Triune” God, the trinity. This is gross error and is cultism.
Too much unprincipled partisan posting going on in this forum.
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17 Mar 19
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@divegeester
Divegeester writes:
I’m a Christian sonship, I have been for 30 odd years.
The statement to which this is a response to doesn't say that Divegeester IS or IS NOT a Christian.
You are hunting to be rejected.
You are eager to be excluded.
The one hunting for exclusion is you. You are arguing that you do not want to be a part of the body of believers in the Father - Son and Holy Spirit as God.
That is YOUR searching for separation.
To be fair, I did call Divegeester a heretic at one point.
Not because of rejecting eternal damnation did I call him that.
And not because of refusing to employ the phrase Triune God did I say that. Not because of anything except teaching me that Christ's office of Son of God is temporary based on his understanding of 1 Cor. 15:28 which never says the Son of God is a temporary office.
And when all things are subjected to Him, then shall the Son also Himself be subjected to HIm who has subjected all things to Him, that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15:28)
There is nothing there that the office of the Son of God is terminated.
But I did not say he was or was not a Christian brother.
God knows.
To be fair to me, he wrote that his God is not my God or my God was not his God. What does that mean?
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17 Mar 19
1 edit
The local churches practice receiving believers according to the principles of Romans 14 and 15. This includes receiving those who are weak in faith and not for disputing.
Now him who is weak in faith receive, and not with a view to passing judgment on reasonings. (Rom 14:1)
God knows for sure into whom He has dispensed His Spirit and divine life so that they are a member of the Body of Christ.
Sometimes Christians may consider each other to be weak in the faith. The apostolic exhortation is to receive whom Christ has received.
Wherefore, receive one another, as Christ received you to the glory of God. (Rom 15:7)
Anyway, we're probably not going to resolve the argument. So let Divegeester write whoever he wants and complain that he felt questioned as to salvation by a booklet.
I wrote before that I think a Christian may have a Modalistic understanding of the Father - Son - Holy Spirit and still be a Christian. That is me speaking my opinion.
Sooner or latter all received brothers and sisters will come into the full knowledge of the truth as to whatever it is.
This is how I take this paragraph pretty much:
”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God. Every genuinely saved one has what the Bible calls the “common faith” (Titus 1:4), which includes what we must believe in order to be saved: we must believe that the Bible is the complete divine revelation wholly inspired by God; that there is a unique Triune God, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit; that Jesus Christ is the Son of God incarnated to be a man; that Christ died on the cross for our sins, shedding His blood for our redemption; that on the third day He was bodily raised from the dead; that He has been exalted to the right hand of God and made the Lord of all; and that He is coming again for His own and to set up His kingdom on earth.”
I don't think what was intended there means from day ONE a person is not saved unless they are thoroughly conversant on every subject there. I think every saved person will eventually grow and come into the full knowledge of the truth which may include many other things not specifically mentioned there.
If the is ambiguity about what was intended, the first sentence is the most important because it stresses the life relationship with the Person of Jesus.
”In order to be saved, one must have a living faith in the Person and work of Jesus Christ, the Son of God.
I think that is a stand alone clear statement - a living faith in the living Person of Jesus and His work. He is the Son of God.
If there is doubt that this seems to be what was intended this paragraph under "Concerning Salvation" I think should remove doubt:
In order to be saved, one must have a living contact with Jesus Christ. Therefore, in bringing unbelievers to salvation, we emphasize prayer and calling on the name of the Lord. According to Romans 10:9 and 10, if a man is to be saved, he must believe in his heart and confess with his mouth.
Once a person comes "Just As I Am" (so to speak) the hope of the churching people is that we would GROW in divine life and not just increase in doctrinal information , even CORRECT doctrinal information.
That was made clear under the heading of "Our Hope"
Our Hope
The local churches hope that as many as are ordained by God to eternal life will believe in the Lord Jesus. The local churches hope that all regenerated Christians will seek the growth in life, not the mere increase of knowledge.
I am writing as one who has met with one or more of the local churches for over thirty years. I am not one of the authors of that booklet.
Take it as my opinion on reading that booklet and my experience as a Christian and one churching with the local churches for many years.
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Your church has indications of being a cult sonship.
Noted that you don't have the guts to come out and plainly say the local churches are a cult.
Noted that anybody can easily find negative comments on the Internet about just about ANY group or ANY person. So you find some critics on the Internet and assume it must be true.